death from above

[mhensley]

How do you handle a creature that jumps down on top of another? Do you use the falling object rules for determining damage?

 

[moritheil]

How do you handle a creature that jumps down on top of another? Do you use the falling object rules for determining damage?

Pretty much. Also consider that their attack gets +1 for higher ground, but the defender may get an attack of opportunity if reach is involved.

 

[mhensley]

Pretty much. Also consider that their attack gets +1 for higher ground, but the defender may get an attack of opportunity if reach is involved.

What kind of attack is it? I would think it would be a touch attack off hand as armor really shouldn't help you in this case. Here's an example that came up in a game I had a couple of weeks ago. I had a bebilith jump down from a ledge 20' high on top of the party. They didn't hear it moving and didn't see it so I had it make a touch attack against the 3-4 pcs that were in its space when it landed. At the time I didn't have the MM on me, so I just guessed that it weighed 1000 lbs. The falling item rules say that a 1000lb object falling 20' will cause 6d6 damage. So I had everyone that was hit by the touch attack take the 6d6. Of course now I see that the bebilith actually weighs over 2 tons, say 2400 lbs. So it should have caused more like 13d6 damage- ouch.

Legal or not?

 

[moritheil]

What kind of attack is it? I would think it would be a touch attack off hand as armor really shouldn't help you in this case. Here's an example that came up in a game I had a couple of weeks ago. I had a bebilith jump down from a ledge 20' high on top of the party. They didn't hear it moving and didn't see it so I had it make a touch attack against the 3-4 pcs that were in its space when it landed. At the time I didn't have the MM on me, so I just guessed that it weighed 1000 lbs. The falling item rules say that a 1000lb object falling 20' will cause 6d6 damage. So I had everyone that was hit by the touch attack take the 6d6. Of course now I see that the bebilith actually weighs over 2 tons, say 2400 lbs. So it should have caused more like 13d6 damage- ouch.

Legal or not?

Well, if something falling is so large that it can flatten a man, that's not a touch attack; it's a crush attack, and those are resolved with reflex saves to get out of the way.

Also, I think if you voluntarily jump down, your fall is treated as being 10' less.

 

[Storme]

Jumping on top of someone is really a poor tactical move in live combat. Both parties have about an equal chance of getting hurt.

One guy told us about a player of his who would weight himself down till he weighed over a ton and teleport above a target and fall on them. Other than the insanely poor accuracy of such a move, the attacker would likely be crushed as well. Anyone who has ever fallen down wearing armor will agree.

Treat the attack like a CRUSH attack found in the Dragon section of the Monster Manual. Then take into account the fact that a dragon weighs over 10,000 pounds and does the damage indicated (I think 5d6). The target gets a reflex save for half.

If a humanoid made such an attack in my game I would allow them some small amount of damage (in relation to the damage a dragon does), and give the target a reflex save for half, and the attacker a fort save for half or no damage (a fort save because he is not, nor cannot AVOID the target).

Figure 1 or 2d6 max...unless the character is as large as a dragon.

 

[mhensley]

Ahh... I didn't think about the dragon crush attack. They really need to make a generic rule for that instead of it being just for dragons. There are several big critters that would be good at making such attacks. The bebilith is one of them. It's huge with a high jump skill.

 

[mvincent]

How do you handle a creature that jumps down on top of another? Do you use the falling object rules for determining damage?

For simplicity, I usually just treat it as a standard charge attack (+1 for height advantage). I know it's not perfect, but the falling object rules are less so, and my motto for unusual stunts is:
"The rules for doing something in the usual way can also be used for doing the same thing in an exciting way"

i.e. if you can run across a room, then you can just as easily swing across it on a chandelier. The description is merely fluff.

 

[blargney the second]

I tend to treat it as a charge attack. Works well in most situations.

 

[javcs]

Depending on what the purpose/method of the attacker was, I could see giving a free trip attack if it hits, or a free grapple attempt, and/or bonus damage (with a weapon).

 

[moritheil]

Depending on what the purpose/method of the attacker was, I could see giving a free trip attack if it hits, or a free grapple attempt, and/or bonus damage (with a weapon).

IIRC, the crush attack gives you a ref save to get out of the way and negate damage entirely, or the option of attacking instead of trying to save yourself.