Death Ward and Necromancers

[frankthedm]

Would Death Ward work on Phantasmal Killer spell?

No. Death ward protects against a specific type of magic / supernatural attack, the ones with a [Death] descriptor and other Death attacks. Death effects have a spirtual side-effect, they do something to the victim that utterly prevents being raised from the dead. Ressurection can work, but not Raise Dead.

Death Attacks
In most cases, a death attack allows the victim a Fortitude save to avoid the affect, but if the save fails, the character dies instantly.
*Raise dead doesn’t work on someone killed by a death attack.
*Death attacks slay instantly. A victim cannot be made stable and thereby kept alive.
*In case it matters, a dead character, no matter how she died, has -10 hit points.
*The spell death ward protects a character against these attacks.


Phantasmal killer does not have a death descriptor. It tricks your own mind into killing you. Those slain by it can be raised from the dead normally. A death effect is a direct asssault on the life force of the victim.

 

[Infiniti2000]

No. Death ward protects against a specific type of magic / supernatural attack, the ones with a [Death] descriptor and other Death attacks.

Waitaminnit, why do you think that spells with [Death] are the only "death spells" or "magical death effects"? Note that death ward doesn't use the term "death attack".

 

[frankthedm]

Waitaminnit, why do you think that spells with [Death] are the only "death spells" or "magical death effects"? Note that death ward doesn't use the term "death attack".

Death ward specifies quite well what it protects against and even calls out... Death ward does not protect against other sorts of attacks even if those attacks might be lethal. It is not immunity to instant death. It provideds immunity to death attacks. The ones that works against have a handy-dandy Death descriptor in them.

Death Ward
Necromancy
Level: Clr 4, Death 4, Drd 5, Pal 4
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Living creature touched
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

The subject is immune to all death spells, magical death effects, energy drain, and any negative energy effects.

This spell doesn’t remove negative levels that the subject has already gained, nor does it affect the saving throw necessary 24 hours after gaining a negative level.

Death ward does not protect against other sorts of attacks even if those attacks might be lethal.

Phantasmal Killer
Illusion (Phantasm) [Fear, Mind-Affecting]
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: One living creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will disbelief (if interacted with), then Fortitude partial; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes

You create a phantasmal image of the most fearsome creature imaginable to the subject simply by forming the fears of the subject’s subconscious mind into something that its conscious mind can visualize: this most horrible beast. Only the spell’s subject can see the phantasmal killer. You see only a vague shape. The target first gets a Will save to recognize the image as unreal. If that save fails, the phantasm touches the subject, and the subject must succeed on a Fortitude save or die from fear. Even if the Fortitude save is successful, the subject takes 3d6 points of damage.

If the subject of a phantasmal killer attack succeeds in disbelieving and is wearing a helm of telepathy, the beast can be turned upon you. You must then disbelieve it or become subject to its deadly fear attack.

Destruction
Necromancy [Death]
Level: Clr 7, Death 7
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell instantly slays the subject and consumes its remains (but not its equipment and possessions) utterly. If the target’s Fortitude saving throw succeeds, it instead takes 10d6 points of damage. The only way to restore life to a character who has failed to save against this spell is to use true resurrection, a carefully worded wish spell followed by resurrection, or miracle.

Focus
A special holy (or unholy) symbol of silver marked with verses of anathema (cost 500 gp).

Finger of Death
Necromancy [Death]
Level: Drd 8, Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One living creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial
Spell Resistance: Yes

You can slay any one living creature within range. The target is entitled to a Fortitude saving throw to survive the attack. If the save is successful, the creature instead takes 3d6 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +25).

The subject might die from damage even if it succeeds on its saving throw.

 

[IanB]

I agree, phantasmal killer is not a "magical death effect" any more than a fireball or magic missile that takes you to -10 is. Neither is implosion, for that matter.

 

[Seeten]

Suggestion: Dont prohibit the Abjuration school, and feel free to dispel anyone with Death Ward.

My necromancer had NO issues with Death Ward, mostly because I rode a zombie dragon, had an absolute army of zombies and skeletons and 2xLeadership(1 leader, 1 undead leader) for yet more minions. If your going for necromancy for negative spell effects, be prepared to counterspell or dispel all castings of death ward.

 

[Lela]

Suggestion: Dont prohibit the Abjuration school, and feel free to dispel anyone with Death Ward.

I subscribe to the "Never give up Abjuration" school of thought. Especially since Dispel is part of it. And I'll keep a few handy. Thanks!

My necromancer had NO issues with Death Ward, mostly because I rode a zombie dragon, had an absolute army of zombies and skeletons and 2xLeadership(1 leader, 1 undead leader) for yet more minions. If your going for necromancy for negative spell effects, be prepared to counterspell or dispel all castings of death ward.

I'm not sure if I'm going to actually use undead or not. One of the players in the last game I DMed (about a month ago) had a pure undead thing going. Brutally effective; I was impressed. But it's a little soon for me to steal his concept.

I'm not sure exactly how I'm gong to RP the character--never am until I'm actually there--but I don't think he'll identify himself as a necro. In fact, I may not tell the majority of the players at first. Just to avoid the stereotype. Besides, they should be reacting to what they know in game anyway. No reason to tempt them with metagame info.

 

[Seeten]

You can go for negative effects, wail, clone, magic jar for another neat and wild necro.

All my mages are Necros, by the by.

 

[Lela]

That makes you one of my new best friends.

 

[Seeten]

Necromancers have a number of cool schticks. Magic Jar is a relatively low level one, thats just vicious against half-ogres, and trolls, and the like. I love to pair my undead summoning with illusions too. 20 undead skeleton warriors illusioned to look like footsoldiers is one of my favorites.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Death ward specifies quite well what it protects against and even calls out... Death ward does not protect against other sorts of attacks even if those attacks might be lethal. It is not immunity to instant death. It provides immunity to death attacks. The ones that works against have a handy-dandy Death descriptor in them.

Right, so by your argument I'd say death ward does nothing vs. death attacks. Yet you say it does. I'd say that [Death] == "death spells". But, "magical death effects" MUST be different, so what could that be except something like phantasmal killer or blasphemy?