Declaring Immediate Interrupts

[1of3]

I'd consider playability first. If it is supposed to work how the DM in the orginal post is depicted to think, then you would need to do every action step by step.


DM: It's the goblins turn. Does anyone want to use an immediate action?

Everyone else: [insert reply]

DM: Goblin attacks the wizard. Does anyone want to use an immediate action?

Everyone else: [insert reply]

DM: The goblin scores a 17 vs. AC. Does anyone want to use an immediate action?

Everyone else: [insert reply]

DM: The goblins rolls 15 points of lightning damage. Does anyone want to use an immediate action?

Everyone else: [insert reply]


Now, that would be certainly possible. I doubt, it's enjoyable.

 

[Max1mus]

The DM gave the player exactly the amount of time it takes you to roll the dice, and he's complaining that the immediate action was declared after the dice roll?

Besides, an immediate action can be declared after the action your reacting to. It's the only thing fair to the player, otherwise you run roughshod over his ability to act.

Exactly. Actually we do play out things like that all the time. Unless you're a hardcore group, having to retroactively play the battle scenes is pretty common.

 

[CapnZapp]

The underlying reason is quite straight-forward:

This kind of powers slow the game down, by adding a decision point where there was none before.

If that is a problem for your DM or your group, the simplest solution is not to choose any such powers.

 

[Max1mus]

Well I guess that's why I ended up retraining to something else but I still feel a lack of closure. I guess I think I would allow it if I were DMing. Does anyone else have any personal experience with this power?

 

[Blackbrrd]

Looking over the replies, it now seems to me that the player shouldn't know the result of the roll before player decides to use Disruptive Strike.

As a DM I try to do my turn as quickly as possible. Prompting the players for actions several times on each monster turn isn't feasible. A compromise would be for the DM to declare the attacks a bit like this: "The zombie x does his Zombie Smash on y". If you have an immediate interrupt power you want to use, you have to pay attention and use it at the correct time. To give the player some additional hints I would probably notify him if a big attack is incoming.

As the player with the Ranger I would look at the monsters and note which ones are the soldiers and NOT use the power on them. I would try to target something softer like artillery. I might even decide to use it on a brute if he is targeting a soft target. In other words: I will have decided under what circumstances I would use my Disruptive Strike.

I think this would work out ok for me as a player and DM.

A sidenote: There is no 3rd level encounter powers that get even close to Disruptive Strike in power if you let the player decide after the attack. (In my games, with a total of 12 characters). This ruling, which seems correct will balance it quite a bit.

(Regarding the damage from immediate actions - they are essentially free, in other words, when checking their damage, you have to add the damage from an at-will power to it, to check the damage. For the ranger that is twin strike, so this power does 3d12+3x(enchant+ass)+1x dex, a really high damage power. At level 8 the ranger in our party would do 3d10+1d8+21 damage if he hit with all the attacks - quite substantial.)

 

[CapnZapp]

To make my opinion more clear:

This kind of powers use a poorly thought out implementation.

...either you slow the game to a crawl (by adding in pauses which 95% of the time won't be used)
-or-
...or you allow a player to react after the event (which these powers clearly aren't balanced for, making them massively over-powered)
-or-
...or you force the player to make a split-second decision; alternatively disrupt the GM's turn. Both to most people is decidedly unfun, and generally makes the power "not worth the hassle".

In conclusion:

WotC should really explain what they were thinking when they added these powers. They really need to do a step-by-step example, where they explain exactly how these powers were meant to be used in real gameplay.

Until this happens, I'm inclined to simply ban these powers outright from my game.

The way WotC have snuck in the powers without a guide on how to use them means they contribute a net loss of fun, as I see it.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

To make my opinion more clear:

I agree with your post generally.

Until this happens, I'm inclined to simply ban these powers outright from my game.

You do just mean Immediate Interrupt powers, right? Not Immediate Reaction powers and Immediate Interrupt features such as Combat Challenge?

 

[ricardo440]

I have played with Disruptive Strike. I don't see the problem other people are having.

We have the initiative order written out so everyone knows what is comming up. As the ranger I had usually decided when I wanted to use it. e.g. if I missed my HUNT target last turn.
You usually know what you are going to try to hit (your hunt target or a big mean thing)
The GM will say:
"Right, zombies go. This one moves here, and attacks Jeff"
"Wait"
*pause*
"I will use disruptive strike"

It is as easy as that.

In Magic you can cast instants at virtually any time. "priority" passes from player to player hundreds of times each turn, but you don't have a 5 second pause every time. It is the person who is interuptings job to stop play, and simply saying "Wait" is easy enough.

 

[DreamChaser]

I have played with Disruptive Strike. I don't see the problem other people are having.

We have the initiative order written out so everyone knows what is comming up. As the ranger I had usually decided when I wanted to use it. e.g. if I missed my HUNT target last turn.
You usually know what you are going to try to hit (your hunt target or a big mean thing)
The GM will say:
"Right, zombies go. This one moves here, and attacks Jeff"
"Wait"
*pause*
"I will use disruptive strike"

It is as easy as that.

In Magic you can cast instants at virtually any time. "priority" passes from player to player hundreds of times each turn, but you don't have a 5 second pause every time. It is the person who is interuptings job to stop play, and simply saying "Wait" is easy enough.

I agree with you completely. The only thing in the OP example that would possibly be slowing down the game is the DM's resistance.

Also, I think that these powers **are** balanced with the assumption that they will be used as interrupts...that's why they're interrupts. Disruptive Strike is essentially a basic attack with a penalty to **that one attack** that triggered it. This is not broken so far as I can see.
DC

 

[Doctor Proctor]

Until this happens, I'm inclined to simply ban these powers outright from my game.

You do just mean Immediate Interrupt powers, right? Not Immediate Reaction powers and Immediate Interrupt features such as Combat Challenge?

Yeah, an outright ban is a bit of an overreaction, and rather unfair. If you ban other Immediate Interrupt powers like Combat Challenge, you're destroying class balance by removing entire class features from the game.

Yet, if you don't ban Combat Challenge, what's your justification? The ability works in the same way when keyed off monsters attacking allies other than the Fighter. The Fighter still has to pay attention and wait until the DM says "The Zombie attacks the Wizard" so that he can say "Wait! The target is marked and I'm using Combat Challenge."

Just as with Disruptive Strike, you're not allowed to cherry pick the usage of your power and say "Oh, well that dude missed anyway, so I'm not gonna use it", so it should properly be used prior to the attack roll has been completed (or at least before the DM determines/announces whether or not it's a hit).

Now true, there's less of a chance for issues should the player be late announcing his CC attack, since it won't interfere with the monster's attack...that is, if the monster survives. My Fighter has a nasty habit of killing monsters that provoke CC's from me, much to my DM's chagrin. As such, it should be used prior to the completion of the attack so that if the monster dies, the attack doesn't happen...just as you would with Disruptive Strike.