Decline of RPG sales

[Belen]

This is true. But since Mongoose isn't the only company doing well, per Wizard's general reports... it's not a single company crying out in the wilderness. This doesn't count sell out products like Serenity, Artesia (at Gen Con), Mutants & Masterminds 3 printings and a second edition (with a sell out at Gen Con), Castles & Crusades sell out or other high profile books that have gone through multiple editions like Warhammer.

In this case, I would like to know what type of print runs we are talking about. If a run of 5k sold out, then that is much different than a run of 20k.

 

[philreed]

In this case, I would like to know what type of print runs we are talking about. If a run of 5k sold out, then that is much different than a run of 20k.

These days 1k-3k is the most common size of a run. Very few publishers print over 3k.

And while M&M 2e sold out at GenCon it was an advance shipment of something like 300 copies.

 

[buzz]

Well, technically, TSR already did Greyhawk 2: Electric Boogaloo several times over...

Right, so why demand WotC do it yet again?

When viewed in this light, it's more about compromise than leading the market - TSR's more off-the-wall settings were leading.

Leading how? By not being successful enough to sustain themselves? And leading whom? What other companies from the time can you point to that were "lead" by TSR's efforts, in ways other than not wanting to repeat their mistakes?

Again, I'm seeing "innovateive"/"leading" = "stuff that I liked".

Still can't help thinking that the criteria which were being looked for were a result of thinking inside the box....that maybe some sort of Setting Construction Kit or something...

Well, that's pretty much what the DMG is.

 

[JoeGKushner]

In this case, I would like to know what type of print runs we are talking about. If a run of 5k sold out, then that is much different than a run of 20k.

Well, you contact Green Ronin, Black Industries, Troll Lords and other companies and ask to see them. Can't help you there.

 

[Belen]

These days 1k-3k is the most common size of a run. Very few publishers print over 3k.

And while M&M 2e sold out at GenCon it was an advance shipment of something like 300 copies.

Which is why someone saying that a 3rd party publisher "sold out" of a book is irrelvant. 1-3k is a joke in the publishing world. I work for a specialty non-profit with 3500 members and our journal prints at 5500 every month and our book prints at 15k every year.

1-3k in an industry where there are supposedly 4 million active players is not even a blip on the radar.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Which is why someone saying that a 3rd party publisher "sold out" of a book is irrelvant. 1-3k is a joke in the publishing world. I work for a specialty non-profit with 3500 members and our journal prints at 5500 every month and our book prints at 15k every year.

1-3k in an industry where there are supposedly 4 million active players is not even a blip on the radar.

You're right. They should just stop publishing them.

 

[WizarDru]

1-3k is a joke in the publishing world. I work for a specialty non-profit with 3500 members and our journal prints at 5500 every month and our book prints at 15k every year.

1-3k in an industry where there are supposedly 4 million active players is not even a blip on the radar.

Which I think is more a commentary on the nature of the industry itself than of relative success of third-party publishers. I mean, if WotC is the only of perhaps three publishers who can even sell a book and get over 10,000 copies sold...doesn't that say more about the industry than about the state of the industry overall?

After all, 4 million active players does NOT translate into 4 millions consumers. A group only NEEDS 1 copy of each of the three core books. What they purchase above that is a totally different story. WotC would like if all of them bought books, but the truth is that only a fraction purchase anything after the initial investment.

 

[Belen]

Which I think is more a commentary on the nature of the industry itself than of relative success of third-party publishers. I mean, if WotC is the only of perhaps three publishers who can even sell a book and get over 10,000 copies sold...doesn't that say more about the industry than about the state of the industry overall?

Most probably.

 

[Mark CMG]

Which is why someone saying that a 3rd party publisher "sold out" of a book is irrelvant. 1-3k is a joke in the publishing world. I work for a specialty non-profit with 3500 members and our journal prints at 5500 every month and our book prints at 15k every year.

1-3k in an industry where there are supposedly 4 million active players is not even a blip on the radar.

I think you have an idea of the general workings of what is being discussed but might have lost sight of the context. There are economics of scale being ignored in your example. You seem to be saying a dandelions aren't viable as a plant in a flower arrangement because you can squeeze more breakfast juice from a grove of oranges.

 

[Mark CMG]

Which I think is more a commentary on the nature of the industry itself than of relative success of third-party publishers. I mean, if WotC is the only of perhaps three publishers who can even sell a book and get over 10,000 copies sold...doesn't that say more about the industry than about the state of the industry overall?

After all, 4 million active players does NOT translate into 4 millions consumers. A group only NEEDS 1 copy of each of the three core books. What they purchase above that is a totally different story. WotC would like if all of them bought books, but the truth is that only a fraction purchase anything after the initial investment.

Plus, many companies are trying to sell a luxury item that is dependent on the ownership of another luxury item that might be, in turn, dependent on yet another luxury item, etc. However, many of those companies do not have a huge overhead and require much smaller margins of profit than those selling the initial luxury item.