Deconstructing class abilities for purchase with XP

[jmucchiello]

Half of BESM d20 thus does indeed predate d20. Its kind of to d20 like what OSX is to UNIX and MAC. It's both, neither, and one looking like the other all at the same time.

That's not the point. The point was that Four Color to Fantasy is an EARLIER "point based d20 system" and that BESM d20 is a LATER "point based d20 system". Buy the Numbers (subject of this thread) is the LATEST "point based d20 system". Conail was complaing that Sigil didn't look at BESM d20, not that he didn't look at BESM Tri-Stat. His complaint is that OGL based material doesn't build on what come before. I pointed out that BESM d20 didn't look at 4ctF and is thus just as guilty of not building on what came before at Buy the Numbers.

And BESM Tri-Stat is not really a new thing. It is similar to most other point based systems: HERO and GURPS being the two most well-known.

(And I'm surprised no one agreed or disagreed with my earlier post. But then, I'm probably just suffering a self-inflated ego.)

 

[Driddle]

(And I'm surprised no one agreed or disagreed with my earlier post. But then, I'm probably just suffering a self-inflated ego.)

OK. Just to make you happy ...

I agree you're probably suffering a self-inflated ego.

Better?

 

[Pbartender]

Well, I just downloaded it, and am giving a thorough read through. Give me a few minutes, and I'll post what I think...

 

[The Sigil]

Well, I just downloaded it, and am giving a thorough read through. Give me a few minutes, and I'll post what I think...

Hey, where'd you find the Interplanetary Spy logo for your avatar?

--The Sigil

 

[Kichwas]

That's not the point. The point was that Four Color to Fantasy is an EARLIER "point based d20 system" and that BESM d20 is a LATER "point based d20 system". Buy the Numbers (subject of this thread) is the LATEST "point based d20 system". Conail was complaing that Sigil didn't look at BESM d20, not that he didn't look at BESM Tri-Stat. His complaint is that OGL based material doesn't build on what come before. I pointed out that BESM d20 didn't look at 4ctF and is thus just as guilty of not building on what came before at Buy the Numbers.

I would say that's intentionally taking a literal interpretation of what was writtn which you and everyone else know to be not what was intended in order to defeat the argument by not really adressing it's actual point.

I would presume the actual point to have been - d20 and OGL should build on past work where possible and where that work has gained community acceptance and or is of exceptional quality - and thus should be further promoted.

MnM for example, has gained a large level of community acceptance.
Way of the Which makes changes to Relics and Ritual's Ritual system that is of exceptional quality - and should be further promoted and incorporated despite obscurity and because it also follows a pre-existing chain.

4ctF is largely unknown, if I've heard of it, it's only been in odd reference here and there - it does not even appear to have a small clique speaking for it's exceptional quality (if it has such).

MnM and 4ctF are however for supers, so there is no logic in incorporating them into a fantasy suppliment - though there might be logic in taking selective elements.

BESM d20 is light to moderately known, with several cliques that do speak for it, and of exceptional quality in the overall whole, though like anything there are problematic details.

BESM d20 handles the cinematic action genre, and its elements can be incorporated into product of that nature. If that product takes an anime theme this is even more so. BESM tri-stat was not just an anime system (Ghost Dog and SaS), and it remains to be seen if the same can be said for BESM d20. It is however, as stated before, Cinematic. All anime really means is the art style...

Product that is in the open should be picked up and further incorporated where fitting if it is also of exceptional quality, or widely accepted, and the judgement of just when these factors occur is somewhat subjective.

 

[Pbartender]

Hey, where'd you find the Interplanetary Spy logo for your avatar?

Wow. Your the first person who's noticed it... So I'll tell you...

Page 96 of Interplanetary Spy #6, The Star Crystal.

Scanned in an editted with Photoshop.

 

[Pbartender]

So... I read through the whole PDF, with the exception of the Appendixes, which don't really have a bearing on the mechanics.

I like it. I like it a lot.

Now, the one downside I saw is that the mathematics involved in computing some of the XP costs can be a bit convoluted. It doesn't necessarily bother me, since I'm a math sort of a guy, but it could be a bit mind-boggling to some. Especially with the equations written right in amongst the rest of the text, they can occasionally be difficult to find and decipher.

It would be nice to have a 'cheat sheet' appendix with all the equations and charts consisely collected in one spot. Even putting the basic equations and rules in their own side bar boxes amongst the appropriate chapters would help.

As far as my group is concerned, I can see the three most experienced of us (myself and two others) being very eager and willing to use this. One of us would be reluctant due to the complexities of the math. And one would be eager but a bit daunted, since he's only been playing D&D for four months or so.

Of course, it would be easy enough for the last two to follow a 'standard class progression', if they choose to.

Again, though... I like it a lot.

I just need to figure out how to adjust from the spell slot XP costs to spell point XP costs...

 

[madelf]

I would just like to point out as regards building on M&M and BESM D20 for a point-based D&D system...

The Power Point system from M&M is declared as IP, and therefore Sigil would have been in violation of copyright to build upon that base even if it would have worked the way he wanted it to.

BESM D20, while indeed having a point-based breakdown (which seems, IMO only of course, to have been for the most part pulled out of their butts - at least as compared to Buy the Numbers) it is still encumbered with a Class system and Level advancement.

Personally I've been looking for something like Buy the Numbers for a while now and to the best I've been able to determine, this is an innovative product.

 

[jmucchiello]

OK. Just to make you happy ...

I agree you're probably suffering a self-inflated ego.

Better?

Yes, much.

 

[jmucchiello]

I would say that's intentionally taking a literal interpretation of what was writtn which you and everyone else know to be not what was intended in order to defeat the argument by not really adressing it's actual point.

I would presume the actual point to have been - d20 and OGL should build on past work where possible and where that work has gained community acceptance and or is of exceptional quality - and thus should be further promoted.

And why writters don't build on the works of others was addessed in the 2nd and 3rd pages of this thread. 1) How do you know someone has gone before? 2) How do you avoid legal hassle if you read what has gone before and it is similar to what you were doing independently? 3) How do you deal with wonky PI/OGC declarations? 4) Who is paying for all these supplements that have to be referred to before development and who is paying the writter for his time reading those supplements? 5) Where is the ego-stroke fulfilling the writter's "this is how I would do rules-X" if he just follows someone else's lead?

5 barriers to building on what comes before. Ultimately, legal, cost/benefit, and ego problems will stop reuse. And as I said in my first post, I think the "That's not how I would do it" part is the biggest part. But that may just be me.