Deep down inside, do you eagerly anticipate a TPK?

[simmo]

If it's a heroic TPK involving an epic struggle in which the heroes fall in an important encounter then that is OK. But if it's multiple pointless deaths in a minor side-adventure or random encounter then that not so much fun.

For example: on the way to the enemy stronghold the party was beset by ravenous wolves and perished. A swarm of mephits swept the party of the bridge in to the ravine. During a bar-brawl with some halflings the roof collapsed killing everyone inside the tavern. Rocks fall, everyone dies.

 

[Henry]

First 3rd Edition game I ever played in would have been a TPK, if I hadn't have made three highly improbably saves in a row and ran like heck at the end. It wasn't intentional, though - it was just that that was the point that our DM realized there was some wonkiness with the Challenge Ratings, and since we had almost nothing invested in the characters, anyway - all 1st level - he let it play out without any "divine intervention."

Made for an interesting follow-up plot, in which we faced undead versions of our previous selves.

Since I was DM in that game, I remember that the problem with that first game was summed up in two words:

"No Clerics."

I recall that the second party had two clerics in it, and even WITH the undead PC's in it, the group waltzed through that tomb like it was filled with rainbows and sunshine. Well, with the two clerics in the group, it kinda was.

 

[Charles Dunwoody]

I enjoy the total party kill. In a balanced adventure and campaign, a character may die due to a random roll. But to kill a whole party requires the players to fail as team and for the DM roleplaying the monsters to act on that failure. If roleplayed correctly through the monsters, the consequences of that failure is a TPK.

I always remind the players, "I didn't kill you, the monster killed your character". It is not my responsibility to keep the characters alive, it is my responsibility to make sure the challenges are fair so the players can keep their characters alive.

And let's be honest. Players love to destroy the adventure you worked on for four hours. They love to kill the NPCs, destroy the monsters, loot the bodies, overcome the traps, and destroy everthing not nailed down (and pry those up with claw hammers). They claim to love roleplaying but what they really love is mayhem. Then they gloat over how awesome and powerful they are.

And mostly they are right. Their characters are the heroes. They should get to strut and preen. Up to a point.

Occasionally though, they don't play well. And the monsters get a small chance, a one time shot, at glory. The TPK. I would be a terrible and unfair DM to take away that occasional opportunity from the monsters. After all, don't they have goals and desires too? Don't I, the DM, have a responsibility to roleplay well and then go ahead and enjoy the mayem?

Oh yes.

 

[dreaded_beast]

Great responses everyone! Since I put the humor tag on, let's try to keep this light-hearted, although all comments and opinions are always welcome.

You know, for the longest time I didn't know what TPK was.

I thought it was something like CPK: California Pizza Kitchen.

 

[Torm]

Since I was DM in that game, I remember that the problem with that first game was summed up in two words:

"No Clerics."

Like I said - it proceeded without divine intervention!

 

[milotha]

Remind me never to play with you. It is NEVER about DM v.s. Players. It is the job of the DM to provide an interesting interactive story for your players. It's your job as a DM to ensure everyone is having a good time (though the Players certainly have responsibilities in this as well). Being out to kill the players isn't fun... it's just lame.

Yeah right. Getting a TPK is easy. The only way I'd ever let a TPK happen is because the players are making stupid mistakes. Not a roll of the dice, not an encounter designed to result in a TPK. And even then I will never be proud of a TPK, because it's the end of whatever storyline I was developing... a story line that I've probably invested a LOT of time in. I just can't see how a TPK is fun, either for the DM or for the players.

I agree. In fact, the easiest thing to do as a GM is to kill the players. So, how is a TPK an accomplishment? How does a TPK make you a good GM? It isn't about a power trip over the players. Killing the players is easy, challenging them in such a way that they fear a TPK and pull their buts out of the fire through ingenious tactics and some "lucky" dice rolling is what makes an encounter memorable.

 

[Lela]

I don't try for TPKs but I do let the dice fall where they may. My players know this and expect it. In fact, we've often discussed how the DM's job is to be everyone the PCs aren't. As such, when I'm a mayor, I'm going to treat the party far different than when I'm an angry dragon or vengful wizard.

If I'm not playing any of the three to their full potential then I'm the one who's screwing up. And that includes the bad guys going for a TPK.

 

[Darmanicus]

Only if we all roll crap characters!

 

[DragonShadow]

Remind me never to play with you. It is NEVER about DM v.s. Players. It is the job of the DM to provide an interesting interactive story for your players. It's your job as a DM to ensure everyone is having a good time (though the Players certainly have responsibilities in this as well). Being out to kill the players isn't fun... it's just lame.



Yes, it's your job as the DM to provide an interesting story, and then in times of combat it is up to you to play out the monsters to the best of their abilities.

If you're playing NPC's in battle with an indifferent attitude and just letting the chance of the die roll dictate what goes on, sure it's a valid style of play but it lacks feeling and compassion: and realism.

Any normal enemy is fighting you, for whatever reason, to the best of his abilities (unless he has some reason to hold back). As such, since the DM takes control of all NPC's, it is YOU VS the PC's, as well as any NPC's helping the party, as well as any indifferent NPC's.




You also have to remember that DM'ing shouldn't be a job. The DM is part of the game too, and the game is a GAME. Everybody is there to have fun, the DM included.

Everybody is proud of themselves when they get a kill. The real challenge is trying to be against the players, while at the same time being with them, while at the same time being indifferent to them.

Against: but don't overwhelm.



So there.

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

A couple weeks ago, I was the only one in my party to escape a TPK. I was playing a druid and managed to wildshape into a bird and escape with 1 hp left right before the BBEG blocked off the only escape route with a web spell. Now my character has to somehow meet up with four complete strangers in the middle of the wilderness and convince them to go back to finish the job. I think it would have been easier to just die and start a new campaign.