Defeated by puzzle - campaign over: Here is the offending puzzle!

[Testament]

DM was not forthcoming. He did, however, acquiesce to give me the puzzle to post on the net, so I am sure he will tell me if a solution from any of you is correct.

It is at this point that the GM should be stabbed in the face. What possible point is there to NOT revealing the answer. Then we can reverse engineer it and give an official verdict on it.

The fact that the brains trust of ENWorld can't solve it in three pages suggests to me that there is no answer.

 

[LeifVignirsson]

It is at this point that the GM should be stabbed in the face.

Why do I envision the 8 bit Theater crew having fun with something like this... Red mage trying to change his stats to solve it, Fighter going on about swords, Thief trying to attract people to view the puzzle and Black Mage trying to stab them all?

Maybe the missing symbols are Final Fantasy sprites... Makes as much sense as anything I have come up with...

 

[Testament]

Why do I envision the 8 bit Theater crew having fun with something like this... Red mage trying to change his stats to solve it, Fighter going on about swords, Thief trying to attract people to view the puzzle and Black Mage trying to stab them all?

Maybe the missing symbols are Final Fantasy sprites... Makes as much sense as anything I have come up with...

Red Mage: It's a simple puzzle. Now be quiet while I put my infinite genius to work on this.

Black Mage: It's not a puzzle, it's nonsense. I'll just blast the doors down and the problem's solved.

Fighter: It's a map to Swordtown! See! There's the valley of Swords!

Thief: Excuse me. <sets up stand charging people to try and discover the meaning of life>

Red Mage: I have it!

Fighter: It's there! It's the legendary Swordtown!

Black Mage: <sound of stabbing> HADOKEN! <blasts doors> Hmm..really was simple!

 

[dnabre]

Easy or Impossible.

Assuming there is no other information, that you don't realize is relevant to present, there is no unique and definitive solution to the puzzle.

My solution, draw smile faces in each blank. It's a valid solution to the puzzle, but very unlikely to be the solution your DM wants. There may be some internal logic to the puzzle, but without that logic, it's a guessing game. So I'm picking Easy, puzzle is very easy to solve, as far as it's possible to solve.

If my DM pulled what yours did. I wouldn't be gaming with him again. He'd be lucky to get me to speak with him again. A campaign ending for whatever reason would upset, for a stupid reason even more so, but putting a puzzle before that I'm supposed to be able to solve, to which the only way of definitively of solving to checking the DM's solution, and him not giving me that solution (after all is over and done with) is simply evil. There's no other way to put.

Personally, I'd tell him to you the solution. If he wouldn't give me the solution (if it was a lame puzzle, that's ok, even if a campaign ended up over it) or admit he doesn't have a solution, the only reasonable assumption is that he's intentionally being cruel to you or he's not willing to admit his own mistake.

 

[Nareau]

Well, as near as I can figure, there are only 50,031,545,098,999,707 (3^35) possible solutions to this puzzle. Assuming it only takes you 30 seconds to try each possible solution, that works out to about 47,594,696,631 years. If I were you, I'd explain to your DM that my character is trying every possible solution he can. Indeed, I'd suggest to the DM that we work out these combinations in real-time. Slow and steady wins the race, right?

I think after 9 or 10 hours of "Hey, how about this solution...does this one work?! OK, how about THIS ONE?", my DM would get the picture that this kind of puzzle is NOT FUN in a big way. If he didn't cave by this point, I'd go start a new game. Ugh.

Spider

 

[darkelfo]

Tell your GM we solved the puzzle, but then refuse to give him the answer.

Or [insert other nonsensical response to nonsensical, capricious absurdity].

 

[Romnipotent]

Tell your GM we solved the puzzle, but then refuse to give him the answer.

nice
The actual answer came to me in a divine dream last night. As you find the puzzle, it is either magical, or mechanical. If it is Magical then you break down the place. If it indeed mechanical, you break down the place.
Dig a hole, break down a door, walk through stone past the puzzle... why couldn't you come back later? were you trapped in a cell? There should always be a way around something. Of course, it comes down to a DM saying "doesn't work" anyway. Did the puzzle give you a key? a gem? a magical wind up set of chattering teeth? Meld with Stone is a very nice spell... or Ethereal Jaunt.
I dont know what level you were or what resources you could get, but theres things to cover this.

Having read the previous thread for this... Get the puzzle wrong again, and make a deal with whatever comes through the portal, find out where the portal leads, jump through the portal... its a way out

 

[the Jester]

To what purpose? He already knows that his group can't solve it.

I don't understand why he wouldn't give the answer. Roman is saying it went down as follows:

Spend a whole session, can't solve it.
Spend 10 minutes next session, players say: We give up.
DM says: Okay, you're dead. Next campaign
Everybody starts making new characters.
Roman: So what was the answer?
DM: Er........

There is no excuse for not answering the question: What the f did we waste all our time on that beat us? To not immediately start drawing symbols onto the piece of paper AND explaining why they go there is extremely rude. This isn't a magician guarding he secrets.

All right, I have to respond to this.

If I was the dm, and the puzzle was out there in my campaign world, and the pcs failed to solve it- I would not give them the answer. They might go back to that same puzzle some day.

It's like telling the players about the secret door they missed in the last dungeon only to have their characters return to search it out! I've learned my lesson about that kind of thing, that's for sure. No matter whether the pcs encounter the mystery or not, it remains mystery until unraveled in my campaign. There are lots of 'big secrets' that the pcs have never even touched on imc, or ones they've barely brushed against. I don't show my cards until the characters get to see them; there are no player previews.

Frankly, I'm a little disappointed at the level of vitriol being hurled at Roman's dm. He has told us in a couple of different posts that the guy is basically a good, fun dm; I don't think it's fair to judge him on a single puzzle taken, frankly, far out of context by everyone. I think this puzzle is definitely a valid challenge; the thing that makes it ruinous is the pcs' inability to retreat and try other things while they chew it over.

Anyhow, I'd like to echo Roman's request that everyone take it a lil easier on his dm.

(Edit: On the other hand, I'd like to know what happened to the pcs- did they starve? Was there a slow death trap that killed them after a few hours? Could they just keep trying different combos til they got it?)

 

[A'koss]

I've just had a look at this (wondering what all the hubbub is about) - I'm sure it's just a refection grid puzzle in 5x5 squares - only the DM messed it up in a couple of spots so that it's not perfect. I mean, it's possible it could be some kind of PAP test or Game of Life, but I'm sure it's not. The grid reflection is too perfect with just a couple of errors on the designer's part..

 

[Errant]

All right, I have to respond to this.

If I was the dm, and the puzzle was out there in my campaign world, and the pcs failed to solve it- I would not give them the answer. They might go back to that same puzzle some day.

I have to disagree with this. Fair enough you can't let players act on a solution given out of game play, but I think its grossly unfair to through something at your players they can't overcome (not saying YOU do that Jester) & not give them some explanation/satisfaction. Its as bad as putting a CR30 dragon in a 4th level dungeon with no way past it but combat (unless its after you told them about the secret door they missed).

Then there's the whole PCs vs players knowledge bit. Was there anyone in the party with an Int or Wis score high enough the character might have been smarter than the player? Was there any chance to solve it (or get more clues) by roll of dice? Solving it the hard way should have resulted in a big fat reward but there should have been other options.

Thats my 2c worth anyway.

I'm not voting. "Mean DM, mean, mean, mean." Isn't at option.