Defeated by puzzle - campaign over

[Ravellion]

...these spells are not available... Clerical magic (of good and neutral gods) is extremely severely restricted... Clerics cannot cast spells in the temple at all unless they carry an artifact...still suffers a chance of spell failure and certain spells are unavailable... cannot regain spell-points ... impossible to rest... impossible for clerics to change which spells are memorized .... turning/destroying undead does not work at all... Teleportation/transportation magic does not work at all... nor do any divinations

Really, I am quite surprised that he allowed you to level up from level 1 in the first place. He seems entirely at unease with higher level D&D. Either that or, he finds it incredibly important that you do not bypass his precious puzzle, to the point where he is willing to sacrifice his game for it.

You might say that it is his personal style, but I'd say you need to try some other DMs. Soon you'll find that the adventure design in your example isn't 'style'. It's bad DMing.

Read more about it on Monte Cook's site

Rav

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Perhaps as a general thing, but I think "cheating" on the puzzle is warranted if the alternative is a pathetic anticlimactic end to a campaign, as Roman acknowledged.

For that matter, it isn't necessarily cheating, looked at from a different perspective. What I mean is this - what are the INT scores in the party? Are there any 18+ scores? Even if there are more than one or two 15+ scores, you're talking quite a bit of brainpower amongst the PCs. Using some outside help doesn't seem all that bad in such a case, and I'm speaking as a DM. In fact, I'd say that such research would help simulate the knowledge such brainy PCs would have.

 

[Dragonblade]

No - our situation is such that these spells are not available. We are in the darkest of the dark temples. Clerical magic (of good and neutral gods) is extremely severely restricted. Clerics cannot cast spells in the temple at all unless they carry an artifact that enables them to do so. We have three clerics and two such artifacts. Even so, however, clerical magic still suffers a chance of spell failure and certain spells are unavailable (all first level spells for instance). Furthemore, clerics cannot regain spell-points (we use a spell point system) while in the temple and it is impossible to rest in the temple at all due to a malevolent aura that it exudes. It is also impossible for clerics to change which spells are memorized and turning/destroying undead does not work at all. Teleportation/transportation magic does not work at all in the evil temple and nor do any divinations or attempts to contact the outside world/planes, etc.

Really, the only way forward is to solve the puzzle (also as far as I know the DM and the style of this campaign - it is the only way forward). Just wondering - has something like this happened to anybody else?

Your DM neutralizes all your abilities and also stops the campaign dead in its tracks because of a puzzle? I just have to say that not only is your DM a bad DM, he sounds like a real jerk too. I'd tell him to stuff his lame campaign and I'd start a new campaign without such ridiculous restrictions or puzzles.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

You know you've got a lame DM/adventure when there is NO other way around a problem. No spells. No fight your way through it. No retreat. No help.

No thanks.

Just tell the DM you fail to solve the puzzle and start another campaign. With a new DM.

 

[jmucchiello]

No regaining cleric spells, no undead turning, no teleport, and a stupid bottleneck puzzle. Let the campaign end. Do you have two bags of holding/haversacks/portable holes? Stand close together and pop one into the other. That will put you on the Astral plane. Instant access to cleric spells. Work your way home from there. There's always a way out.

I hate puzzles. And I loathe word puzzles (because I can never get them). When a DM puts a riddle in front of the party I walk away from the table and tell them to call me back when they solve it. DMs I play with know this. (Of course with riddles, always guess "the moon" first. It's like a 50/50 chance of being correct. )

 

[jmucchiello]

For that matter, it isn't necessarily cheating, looked at from a different perspective. What I mean is this - what are the INT scores in the party? Are there any 18+ scores? Even if there are more than one or two 15+ scores, you're talking quite a bit of brainpower amongst the PCs. Using some outside help doesn't seem all that bad in such a case, and I'm speaking as a DM. In fact, I'd say that such research would help simulate the knowledge such brainy PCs would have.

While agree and have no "But that's metagaming" hangups, if you are going to do that, you may as well just turn the puzzle into an Int check.

"You come to a room with a lever puzzle. Make Int checks. Anyone beat DC 25?"

 

[Chimera]

Impassable puzzles are classic bottleneck design - something many, many adventures are plagued by - it ranks right up there with having to interact with a certain NPC or find a certain secret door to go forward. DMs who do this on a regular basis need to sit in the players' chairs for a while and feel the frustration. Not fun - you have my sympathy.

"Aha! I have a puzzle so fiendishly clever that they'll never solve it!"

Well guess what...

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I just fail to see the logic of a GM who would allow their entire campaign to end because the characters can't sold a puzzle. It seems like a GM who allows a bad die roll of a player to set off a chain reaction of events that leads to everyone's death.

Do you get the sense this is a set up, such as the GM not wanting to go on? This puzzle seems like a bloodless TPK.

In a way it is worse - he has a puzzle that the players can't solve.

If I were GM I would allow the players to try to solve it, but have a DC in the event they can not, the players are not the characters nor vice versa. A character may have an 18 Int even if the player does not. But I also like puzzles. (Though I try to be a bit less anachronistic about them.)

The Auld Grump

 

[Tinker Gnome]

Well, I think players should have to sit in the DM's spot as some other players hammer blow up a wall and just bypass their really cool puzzle.

 

[Gentlegamer]

mellon!