Define "grognard"

[Pseudonym]

You forgot:

Lemongamer

I'm not familiar with this term, but I like it.

 

[Diamond Cross]

You know while everybody's arguing over what the word means, I'm sure your girlfriends could use somebody to talk to.

 

[Bullgrit]

Not according to you own poll; slightly more than half of the respondents answered someone who plays an older edition of D&D.

As I make this post, it's less than half -- 48.86%. Heck, the "old school" poll got a couple answers over 50% and 60%. So, according to my own poll, my statement seems more accurate than not.

And the two pejorative definitions get less than one-in-four of the votes cast, including yours, of course.

What are the pejorative definitions? I could see an argument for the last in the list, but what other one do you consider pejorative?

And "including yours, of course"? "Of course"? Look, it's pretty obvious by now, that you have some kind of personal hang up over me. The only time you ever respond to one of my posts is to suggest that I'm in some way biased against a subject.

Somewhere along the line of this forum, you got the idea that we hold opposing views on everything D&D. I don't know how you got that idea, as I find most comments you make about D&D in line with my own thoughts, feelings, experiences, and preferences. I've even given xp to some of your posts.

I don't know, maybe you've decided to play a role around here as "Bullgrit's constant opposition." It's just weird for you to be in that role when we actually have a lot of the same feelings about the subject we discuss around here. I seem to have more actual play experiences in common with you than I do with some folks who have never stated disagreement with anything I've ever posted.

You have a problem with how I define grognard? You think my definition is negative? Well, I've never called you, (or anyone that I can remember), a grognard. You call yourself a grognard? Well, realize that less than 22% of the people here define it the way you want it. Even removing my "of course" vote, the "confrontational and rejecting" opinion outnumbers the "accepting and embracing" opinion by 23-3. My lone opinion on the definition doesn't set anything and doesn't influence anyone.

So if your constant objection to everything I post is sincere, you should reconsider where our positions actually are in relation to one another. If your constant objection is a forum role-play thing, well, it's weirdly incongruent with our actual stances.

Bullgrit

 

[Umbran]

Gentlemen, can we not get personal please? Thanks much.

 

[pawsplay]

I find it bizarre that the wargame answers are getting such a low response rate, since this is a multichoice pool. It seems obvious to me that, whatever the meaning is in relation to D&D, the term also means an old school wargamer, because that's where it comes from. Since there are people alive and kicking who were "grognards" back in the 70s, a redefinition that excludes them seems to me to be simply inaccurate if it aims to be useful.

Then again, maybe it's just become so hip to call old players "grognards" that many people are unaware of the wargame -> OD&D connection.

 

[doctorhook]

In my usage, "grognard" (in a D&D context) means "hates a late/the latest edition of the D&D", typically with a side of "rejecting and confrontational" behaviour.

When I joined ENWorld in the fall of 2007, it was "Grognard-Central" for anti-4E sentiment; in contrast to the WotC/Gleemax boards, ENWorld had a higher proportion of critical voices towards 4E. Gradually, "Grognard-Central" had given way to a dull torrent of edition wars -- judicious moderation and the creation of a few new forums meant that the most polemic posts didn't have as many opportunities to explode, IIRC. Over time, the edition wars have slowed to a trickle, and "Grognard-Central" has given way to WotC's 4e General Discussion board, aka "Where Angels Go To Die".

 

[Hussar]

I dunno. I've often heard the term grognard tied to web sites like Dragonsfoot. Y'know? That place where you're not even ALLOWED to discuss a couple of particular versions of D&D, which, I guess completely by coincidence, just happen to be the newest and second newest versions?

Is it really surprising that grognard=hates new stuff in the minds of some people?

 

[mattcolville]

Something I've noticed recently is as our hobby shrinks and people say "is the hobby shrinking?" People respond; "No, people have been saying the hobby was dead since 1974."

I don't think that's true. What people USED to do was look down on the New Genre as "ruining the hobby."

That's when people started to call the old Wargamers "grognards." Because they, the wargamers, were complaining about the RPG gamers coming to their conventions.

Actually, what they started complaining about was the fantasy in their miniature wargames. That was step one; pre-D&D.

Then when RPG's hit big and you saw this huge influx of new RPG gamers at conventions, the Old Guard didnae like it. A: these were kids, and they were adults, B: the kids had no sense of the traditions and etiquette the old guard had developed and C: they new kids were into fantasy and SF and NOT into historicals.

So the RPG kids were "ruining the hobby."

The next time we saw this phenomenon was with Magic and the CCG boom. That's when the RPG guys, now in their 30s, started complaining about the huge influx of new kids.

And just as the RPG kids weren't into what the Wargamers were into (historicals), the CCG kids were often not as into SF and Fantasy. They grew up in a culture where SF and Fantasy had become the mainstream and many would never read Asimov or Tolkien. They consumed the more popular, more mass-market works derived from those works.

We *kinda* got a little bit of it again with the clicky-games but while they were popular by that point I think the Network the hobby created had basically collapsed and so there was much less awareness of what all these other gamers were doing, and what--if anything--they thought.

So I take this classicist approach to the term. A Grognard is someone complaining that the Hot New Category is ruining the hobby because of the huge influx of new gamers it's brining in.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Are 3e fans grognards?

I'd have to say, technically yes, but they don't feel very grognardly to me.

 

[Umbran]

Since there are people alive and kicking who were "grognards" back in the 70s, a redefinition that excludes them seems to me to be simply inaccurate if it aims to be useful.

Alive and kicking, maybe, but often not. The True Olde Grognards were typically Gary Gygax's age - adults in the 1970s - which means they are typically 60+ years old now, and not hanging around in or encountering RPG circles much any more. While they exist, it may be that the typical EN Worlder today has never spoken with one about the hobby.

You usually don't have a word for something or someone you don't discuss with any frequency. The word has gotten repurposed, because time has marched on.