Deities and Demigods ~ Thank You God!

I agree with Rounser. I don't need D&DG--I never needed it in its past incarnations, either. The only use the original ever got was when I was in 5th grade, and spent a recess killing off as many deities as I could (DMing myself, LOL), one on one, just to get their magic items. :D

That's the only kind of people who would use D&DG god's stats now and then, IMO: Munchkins! If the gods have stats, they can be killed, and munchkins everywhere will stand in line to get their chance to "off a god."

What we need from WoTC are less window-dressing fluff like D&DG and railroading mega-dungeon crawls, and more good "crunchy" stuff everyone can use like Magic of Faerun and Masters of the Wild.
 

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Kaptain_Kantrip said:
I agree with Rounser. I don't need D&DG--I never needed it in its past incarnations, either. The only use the original ever got was when I was in 5th grade, and spent a recess killing off as many deities as I could (DMing myself, LOL), one on one, just to get their magic items. :D

That's the only kind of people who would use D&DG god's stats now and then, IMO: Munchkins! If the gods have stats, they can be killed, and munchkins everywhere will stand in line to get their chance to "off a god."

What we need from WoTC are less window-dressing fluff like D&DG and railroading mega-dungeon crawls, and more good "crunchy" stuff everyone can use like Magic of Faerun and Masters of the Wild.

So, Homer was a Munchkin for telling tells that if in a cmapaign one would need the stats for? And I'm not talking Simpson, either.

No arguement that munchkins will use and slay gods. So what? As long as they have fun, more power to them.

In my game I have charcters (NPCs) that have just optained godhood. I'm not going to stop using them now. So, I'm happy I have a way to define them in all their Divine splendor. So, having NPCs who over the course of 4 campaigns, five years of gaming and story telling become gods makes me a munchkin because I stat them out?

I'm not happy with the mega modules. Actually, I've never even looked at them they so disinterest me so. Crunchy bits are nice and I really liked MotW. MaoF was okay. Too many spells, though. It wouldn't be so bad if more were creative instead of so many versions of the older spells.
 

To clarify what I wanted to say above, I think D&DG will *mainly* be used by munchkins; others will find little use or need for it. F&P will probably be slightly more useful, since more people play in FR and there is a precedent for a ridiculous amount of divine meddling.
 

Re: Re: Re: I Hate to say this folks...

Wolfen Priest said:


Sorry, I double checked it last night, it is called the Ruins of Albythor or something like that, and it is actually not set in the SL

Ah yes I'm familiar with it. It's Necromancer Games TOMB of Absythor. It's almost like a second cousin to me, as C-3P0 would say! ;)

Oh and about Second, while I didn't care THAT much for ToT, it DID help Bane figure out that Lawful Evil doesn't mean I can be stupid AND Evil.


Finally one more thing, I don't think I NEED cool monsters to run stuff, even if I'm a Scarred Lands fan.
 

Flexor the Mighty! said:
P.S. Heironeous uses an axe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EXACTLY!!!!!!!

Im glad to see Im not the only one who remembers this.

Obviously when they made 3e and decided to crib some of the Greyhawk gods for the default cosmology some bright light said 'Huzzah! We need a god for Paladins!' (OK, maybe the Huzzah is gratuitous, but not completely outside the realms of possibility). Looking thru the books they figured out that Heironeous is the closest thing to a Paladin among the gods. Problem: Axes are now used primarily by Barbarians.....uh......now Heironeous uses a Longsword. Simple. :rolleyes:

Personally, I ban the Paladin class outright. Im in the It-Shoulda-Been-A-Prestige-Class camp. Paladin types are Cleric/Something else (usually Fighter) and I make suitable pClasses to fit each paticular god.

I still use Heironeous with an Axe, and the primary organization which worships him is the Order of the Axe. Brothers of the Order (its a fraternal organization) are rightly feared across the Flannaess, with among other things a pClass ability that lets them throw Lightning Bolts x/Day that do pClsLvld6 as they ascend thru the lvls (maxes at 3/Day for 10d6).

Some of the most memorable characters from campaigns past in 2e and GreyHERO where Brothers of the Axe, and Im not going to retcon that just because 3e needed a Paladin god wielding a Longsword.
 

Although I've promised an extensive review of D&Dg, I don't have the book on hand while I have Web access (at work), so I'll post impressions of the book, supplemented with some thoughts and opinions about the book (its utility, etc.).

3rd Ed. Deities and Demigods provides full stats and role-playing information for numerous deities. Rather than compressing the deity entries to a minimum (thereby allowing for more deities/pantheons), WOTC has wisely chosen to set a good precedent by extensively detailing those deities that have been included. It sets a good precedent, IMO, because the 1st Ed. book focused on deity stats and the 2nd Ed. book neglected deity powers and abilities in favor of descriptive text that could just as easily have been extracted from a mythology text at your local library (we have several). Whereas deity stats require much more work, and fortunately have been provided in abundance.

As a perusal of the Web Enhancement will convey, D&Dg does not provide much detail on a deity's church or followers. However, I do not perceive this to be a drawback. Each campaign is unique, and campaigns likely to use one (or more) of the pantheons therein will tailor those deities and their faiths to their individual milieu. The functional aspect of divinely bestowed powers in 3rd Ed. is no where near as abysmal as 2nd Ed. (with its god-awful Spheres and unbalanced Granted Powers) and yet more colorful and flavored than 1st Ed.

Many questions have been raised regarding the utility of deity stats. Aside from the conventional argument concerning the possibility that the said information may be used in a campaign that focuses on high level play, the stats in D&Dg provide information and ideas, in and of themselves, that could not be conveyed otherwise without exhaustive descriptive text. A careful DM will take the time to note that one deity has a higher Int and/or Wis than another (and possibly rival or enemy) deity. These facts can help to establish relations among worshippers and the coorelation of those deities' forces.

Arguments have been advanced stating that statted deities are "reduced" to stat blocks. Blah. 2nd Ed. "reduced" every single deity of every real-world pantheon to nothing more than a power level, utterly ignoring the very carefully established differences among deities within pantheons, distinctions that might have taken hundreds or thousands of years to establish. And while statting deities may ignore/overlook some essential aspects of deities, it at least approximates further inequalities that actually existed among deities in mythology and (with 3rd Ed.'s approach) without reducing every deity to a rigidly defined power level. Of course, such power levels exist (greater, intermediate, etc.), but these, in the end, do not define a deity in its entirety.

Quantifying deity attributes, therefore, can be construed as an outgrowth of the need to 1) provide option, 2) to provide information simply by virtue of the existence of a particular attribute or power and 3) quantify deities to allow for the closest approximation to real-world mythology. In 2 above it becomes an alternative to extended descriptive text, and in some ways is more informative. Knowing that Zeus occasionally manifests to seduce women is made all the more interesting via a knowledge of his Charisma score of 29 (which I thought could have been higher). Not only that, assuming a campaign based on Greek culture and mythology, we have an attribute to actually determine the likelihood of success in such an endeavor, rather than simply (and FALSELY) assuming, "Well, he's a god! He simply succeeds." Using the logic (?) of 2nd Ed., of course thats the case.
 

<b>must...not...flame...munchkin...realms...fans...</b>

Please. Go right ahead. I do love debunking the Realms Fan = Munchkin stereotype. Especially from a Greyhawk fan… I find it hysterical that every Realms game I’ve ever played in was middle of the road magic, while the one Greyhawk game was the biggest munchkin’s paradise I’ve ever seen.

Stay away from the stereotypes please. You are actually the first person I’ve seen do this in a “long”, “long” time. It's absence was so enjoyable...

Ren
 

Well if you have a DM who wants to run a munchkin game then any setting can be perverted.

I remember the first time I looked at the 3e FRCS. What is the first thing I see in the beginning of the book? Stats for Elmunchkin in all his "glory". It was funny that they had to do their own "epic" level rules as soooo many of the NPC's were of sickening levels of power and couldn't be done under the rules fo the core books. There are seemingly endless waves of Chosens of this or that god, everyone is superjacked in levels and power. TO be a major player in the FR you have to be a Munchkin, otherwise how are you going to keep up with Elmunchkin and his gang? The FR was cool back in the 1e boxed set, but since then it's a joke IMO. Mordenkainen & Rary would be middling mages in the FRCS, and they are the big hitters in Greyhawk. But if you like it more power to you. IMO it sucks.
 


On Flexor

He is perhaps the most irrational poster i have noted on these boards, many of his stances being overtly hypocritical and/or demogaugic........

Why have i posted this? I'm waiting for his reaction to prove my point....
 

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