Deities & Demigods continued

[drowdude]

Then I guess the question is "Why didn't they wish ALL their ability scores up by +5?"

Well, if I am understanding things correctly, only those gods with sufficient wizard levels can actually cast/use Wish.


One thing I think is kinda lame is that all gods dont have Miracle as a spell-like ability....

 

[Aaron L]

DMG (page 177) states that a limit of +5 (TOTAL) can be gained through inherent bonuses. Hence, even though they are gods, they are limited by this rule as well. So- they can raise any or all scores by however many points they want, but the TOTAL gained can never be more than +5.

I believe that the total bonus means total to one ability score. Otherwise inherent bonuses from wishes and miracles would be less powerful than minor magic items.

 

[Thraxus]

Well, if I am understanding things correctly, only those gods with sufficient wizard levels can actually cast/use Wish.


One thing I think is kinda lame is that all gods dont have Miracle as a spell-like ability....

Doesn't the Salient Divine Ability named Alter Reality allow a Deity to simulate the effect of any spell of 9th level or lower as a standard action? It also states that it does not require the use of any material or XP components for the spell effect being created. It seems that any Deity with a Cha of 29 or higher could take this Salient Divine ability and have unlimited Wish and/or Miracle spells.

Can anyone think of a good reason for a Deity NOT to have Alter Reality? Am I misinterpreting it somehow?

 

[drowdude]

Doesn't the Salient Divine Ability named Alter Reality allow a Deity to simulate the effect of any spell of 9th level or lower as a standard action? It also states that it does not require the use of any material or XP components for the spell effect being created. It seems that any Deity with a Cha of 29 or higher could take this Salient Divine ability and have unlimited Wish and/or Miracle spells.

Can anyone think of a good reason for a Deity NOT to have Alter Reality? Am I misinterpreting it somehow?

Duh *smacks himself in the head with D&Dg* you are absolutely correct....


Wow, uh, then I guess every god *should* have a +5 inherent bonus to each stat then
(except those that dont meet the 29 Cha requirement of course, but then why wouldnt they just use a Tome of Leadership and Influence to get the bonus they need to qualify...)

 

[Killer Shrike]

I'll actually note that the SR 47 is completely ignorable by Hextor, because of the D&Dg rules. Gods get their divine rank as a bonus on caster level checks and intermediate gods get an automatic 20 on such checks. This means that Hextor gets a 57 (with his Spell Penetration feat) *always* to pierce SR. There's no chance he'd fail to do so. It's the saves he can't manage to overcome. I should note that apparently Hextor's priest got into the editing room as well, since WotC didn't add in Heironeous' divine grace abilitiy into his saves. In any case, the saves of both gods are so high that *neither* of them is capable of casting a spell that the other one can't automatically save against. Remember that gods *don't* auto-fail on a roll of a 1. So, as I said, I see Harm as a *real* popular spell.

Gah...of all the stupid...illogical....inconsistent..........[Sigh]

Yes I had missed the divine rank to spell pen bit. That just strikes me as retarded.

Well, its seems more and more to me that d20 falls apart quickly the higher the power level escalates.

Fortunately for me, the HERO System 5th edition rulebook has found its way into my hot little hands over the weekend. I think it may be time for me to go back to running GreyHERO........Say what you will about the HERO System: one thing it definitely does well is ridiculously powerful beings.

 

[Thraxus]

Wow, uh, then I guess every god *should* have a +5 inherent bonus to each stat then
(except those that dont meet the 29 Cha requirement of course, but then why wouldnt they just use a Tome of Leadership and Influence to get the bonus they need to qualify...)

You'd think it would be safe to assume that any deity with the Alter Reality ability has already given himself the maximum amount of inherent bonuses to his ability scores. He'd be rather foolish not to, don't you think?

But then that reasoning breaks down because...
1) You must have a Cha of 29 to have Alter Reality, and...
2) As soon as you have Alter Reality, why wouldn't you give yourself a +5 inherent bonus to Cha, thus raising it to 34?
3) Leading us to ask, why would any deity have a Cha of only 29 when he could have 34? Are the deities "born" with a +5 inherent bonus pre-built into their ability scores, thereby rendering them unable to raise them further with wishes?

It seems like a LOT of deities in the book have a Cha of 29. Boccob, Corellon Larethian, Ehlonna, Erythnul, Gruumsh, Hextor, Kord, Kurtulmak, Moradin, Nerull, Pelor, St. Cuthbert, Tiamat, Vecna and Wee Jas all have Charisma scores of 29, and they all have Alter Reality. That's two thirds of the pantheon who have put just enough points into Charisma (even the deities consider it a dump stat apparently) to qualify for the uber-flexible Alter Reality ability. They all have it, and the other eight deities that I didn't mention have Cha scores higher than 29, and they have Alter Reality as well. I'm not going to bother looking through the other pantheons in the book, since I imagine I'll see a similar pattern with them as well.

It would seem that Min/Max'ing is a popular hobby amongst the ranks of deities as well as mortals.

 

[LordMelkor{Talos}]

Thanks Drew! Another question: what are benefits of Arcane Mastery Salient Ability?

 

[poilbrun]

DMG (page 177) states that a limit of +5 (TOTAL) can be gained through inherent bonuses. Hence, even though they are gods, they are limited by this rule as well. So- they can raise any or all scores by however many points they want, but the TOTAL gained can never be more than +5.

Here is exactly what the DMG states on page 277:
An inherent bonus is a bonus to an ability score that results from powerful magic, such as wish. A character is limited to a total inherent bonus of +5 to any ability score.

I suppose the "to any ability score" means that the ability scores are taken separately when calculating max inherent bonus, no? At the very least, that's how I always understood it...

 

[poilbrun]

Thanks Drew! Another question: what are benefits of Arcane Mastery Salient Ability?

Arcane Mastery
The deity can prepare wizard spells without consulting a spellbook.
Prerequisites: Spellcaster level 1st, Int 29, Spell Mastery
Benefit: The deity can prepare any wizard spell that it can cast without using a spellbook.
Notes: This ability gives the deity access to every spell on the sorcerer/wizard spell list, provided that the deity has sufficient wizard levels and a sufficient Intelligence score to cast them. The deity also can invent new sorcerer/wizard spells without researching them.
Suggested Portfolio Elements: Knowledge, Magic

In short, you have all the spells, and need no spellbook to prepare them.

[edit: one typo]

 

[Thraxus]

Here is exactly what the DMG states on page 277:
An inherent bonus is a bonus to an ability score that results from powerful magic, such as wish. A character is limited to a total inherent bonus of +5 to any ability score.

I suppose the "to any ability score" means that the ability scores are taken separately when calculating max inherent bonus, no? At the very least, that's how I always understood it...

My personal opinion has always been that you can have up to a +5 inherent bonus on each of your ability scores.