Deities & Demigods continued

[Thraxus]

Don't you have anything better to do?

Seriously, I wouldn't answer your post just to say that! Maybe the speed comes from the fact that it now takes a lot longer to move the mass of your leg (which must be awfully heavy!), meaning you can only make one stride per round? If I ever had to create such a large creature, I'd sure give him a better speed (a 6' human can easily make a 3' stride, so a 1600' humanoid creature should be able to make a 800' stride), a lot more hit points and an unbelievable natural armor increase (if a 6 foot human becomes 1600 ft, it means his size was multiplied by approx. 267, which means the density of his skin was also multiplied by 267...). However, as this SDA is only intended for gods and it is strictly said that other characteristics do not change, I believe it would be stupid to be that tall, except for show (I'd certainly be impressed by a 1600' tall deity, even if the it would suck in a fight!)...

Hey, they're gods right? They don't have to obey the laws of physics, or even the laws of D&D physics.

Perhaps the intention is that their volume increases without a corresponding increase in mass. If that were the case however, wouldn't they just fly away in the slightest breeze?

I think 1600 ft. is a little ridiculous. Maybe it would be simpler to just restrict the deity to somewhere between 64 and 128 ft. to begin with.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Re: @ Upper_Krust

Hi Geron mate!

Just a question for your suggestions to ability raises on ascending to Divine Rank...

Sure!

How did you arrive at those bonus values? +21 to freely designate...1 for every level until 20 and 1 for the ascension? How did you make them up?

Reverse engineered the deity attributes from D&Dg (that I was aware of) and the web enhancement and previews.

You generally end up with Base 24 + class level ability bonuses + 21 floating points + 1 (total) per divine rank.

Because I´m sitting here, thinking about checking my Immortal Set later, if it´s convertible to 3e...

Basing Power Points on Experience Points might be tricky.

You could always just make Divinity automatic between 37th-72nd level?

If it´s not touching your own work, of course.

My guess would be that D&Dg encroaches a lot more upon 'Immortals' than my own work!?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Thanks. Could someone reverse engineer Re-Horakhty's BAB to see if this is true.

You could also take a look at Vecnas # Attacks. Does he have 2?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Thraxus!

Hey, they're gods right? They don't have to obey the laws of physics, or even the laws of D&D physics.

I don't see why gods shouldn't have to obey the laws of physics - isn't magic itself simply science we don't yet understand!?

Perhaps the intention is that their volume increases without a corresponding increase in mass. If that were the case however, wouldn't they just fly away in the slightest breeze?

It all seems irrelevant if the size increase has no actual affect.

I think 1600 ft. is a little ridiculous. Maybe it would be simpler to just restrict the deity to somewhere between 64 and 128 ft. to begin with.

Its not that its ridiculous, but more that its pointless.

Seemingly D&D isn't (and has never been) equipped to deal with increasing a monsters size...theres always 4th Ed. though!

 

[Thraxus]

Hi Thraxus!

Hi Upper Krust!

Presumably this must therefore be a Supernatural Ability for show - rather than for practical purposes - otherwise it would affect ability scores.

I definitely can't think of any practical purpose of growing 19,000,000 times my original mass and volume. I'm pudgey enough as it is.

If you wanted to get technical the strength increase should be proportional to the square root of the mass increase.

(Remember that in D&D x2 Str = +5)

So...

x8 Mass (Large) = x2.8 str = +7 in D&D
x64 Mass (Huge) = x8 str = +15 in D&D
x512 Mass (Gargantuan) x22.6 = +22 in D&D
x4096 Mass (Colossal) x64 = +30 in D&D

So the +8 is probably an easier average.

Yes, its probably best to keep the math relatively simple. If I want to crunch numbers, I'll play an Expert with maxed out Profession (Math Teacher) Skill.

For the sake of this example lets say:

Colossal (64 ft.-128 ft.)
Enormous (128 ft.-256 ft.)
Gigantic (256 ft.-512 ft.)
Titanic (512 ft.-1,024 ft.)
Humongous (1,024 ft.-2,048 ft.)

Hey it was late, I was tired, and I couldn't be bothered coming up with names for them. Yours will do in a pinch though.

Constitution perhaps shouldn't be affected.

Hit Dice would probably be doubled per size category though.

Dexterity should perhaps be reduced by 5 per size category. (You could argue to a minimum 10...maybe)

Constitution would increase if it were a permanent, natural progression of size, as detailed in the Monster Manual. Extrapolating from that, I should gain a +32 to my Con score. However, since I'm artificially (ie. divinely) altering my size temporarily, and not really undergoing any physiological changes, (do deities even have physiologies anymore? do they need to use the bathroom?) then perhaps a Con increase isn't in order after all. The extra 16 hit points per Hit Dice would be nice though, and since many deities have 60 Hit Dice (20 Outsider HD and 40 Class Levels), that's an extra 960 hit points. Still doesn't seem like much more staying power in a fight considering how massive I have become.

The increase in Hit Dice seems even more obvious an idea than the increase in Con, but there are no clearly defined rules to govern this as far as I'm aware. The creatures in the MM don't seem to follow any set rule as to how many Hit Dice they need to advance before reaching a new Size category.

According to the MM, increases past Large Size do not result in any further loss of Dex. Agile behemoths we have running around in the D&D universe, aren't they?

Which is why technically Hit Dice should be doubled, not constitution.

Although this is the greatest mistake of D&D 3rd Ed. that it still equates HD with skill/BAB - which is lunacy.

eg. Giants should have rubbish BAB; rarely hitting; but when they do hit...*splat*

Give all giants a BAB of +1, but make their Damage Dice equal to the square root of their mass increase.

eg.
Hill Giant (large) Greatclub 3d10 base
eg.
Titan (huge) Warhammer 16d6 base

Make Con = HD
Make Dex Bonus = Skill (to hit)

In fact ignore all the above I am flying off at a tangent!

You're flying off on a tangent? What did you think I was doing?

You would probably develop your own gravity with noticeable effects

Ohhh, now that opens up a whole new sent of tangent flying possibilities!

Mortals could be running all over me like a swarm of spiders, hacking and stabbing for all they're worth! Like Creeping Doom with humanoids instead of insects. What's the comparative weight/mass of the planet Earth? How would my gravity compare to an Earth-like planet?

In fact you could represent the god yourself by standing on the gaming table!

An interesting thought, and one that I had myself, but a normal human being wouldn't come close to accurately representing the size of the deity in all its impossibly humongous glory! Perhaps I could hire the WWF's Big Show to come and stand on my table...

Speed should probably increase as per the square root of the size increase.

eg.
x2 size (not mass) = x1.4 (lets say x1.5) speed
x4 size = x2 speed
x8 size = x2.8 (lets say x3) speed
x16 size (colossal) = x4 speed

Hey, that actually sounds balanced and useable! Therefore as a Humongous (1024 ft-2048 ft.) being, I would be x256 my original size, granting my x16 speed. Since I'm a deity, starting with a 60 ft. land movement rate, my new speed is 960 ft. Since my legs are probably ~700 ft. long, this could accound for two relatively short steps taken each round.

At the Site Index, scroll down to 'Science' and click 'Size Matters'. Near the bottom of that page is a discussion on Godzilla; Giant Insects and 50ft Women (as per 'B-Movies').

I don't even want to think of the implications that a 1,600 ft woman would have for

porn movies. We'll not go there!

Your best attack would be falling over...as with Talos in Jason & the Argonauts.

Timbeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!

Admittedly they should have determined the power and size increases (to infinity) when they initially designed the system.

Agreed.

 

[Thraxus]

You could also take a look at Vecnas # Attacks. Does he have 2?

Why yes, yes he does.

Attacks: +5 ghost touch wounding unholy dagger +42/+37 melee, touch +32/+27 melee; or spell +32 melee touch or +32 ranged touch

 

[Thraxus]

Thanks. Could someone reverse engineer Re-Horakhty's BAB to see if this is true.

Here goes nothing...

20 HD Outsider = +20
Paladin 20 = +10
Monk 20 = +10
Cleric 10 = +5
Divine Rank 19 = +19
Strength of 32 = +11

That makes +75 BAB so far.

Re-Horakhty fights with either a khopesh or unarmed. His khopesh is a +5 brilliant energy holy lawful khopesh, increasing his BAB to +80. He also has Weapon Focus (Khopesh), so that adds an additional +1, making +81.

His attacks using his Khopesh are listed in the book as +81/+76/+71/+66, so that accounts for that.

His unarmed attacks, thanks to his Divine Monk SDA, are defined as a +5 keen lawful vorpal unarmed, so his BAB with that is +80. The only difference there between unarmed and khopesh is that he does not have Weapon Focus (unarmed), so he doesn't have that extra +1 bonus.

His attacks using unarmed combat are listed as +80/+77/+74/+71/+68, which gives him five attacks per round, not four as you would think if his number of attacks were limited by his first 20 HD (the Outsider ones). So it would seem that deities with Monk levels use the Monk BAB progression if fighting unarmed, or at least this one does. Does U_K have anything to add?

 

[Killer Shrike]

Check this out...

[SNIP]

Hey, now I'm laying horizontal. That changes my reach from 45 ft. to 25 ft. and my facing to 640 ft. by 1280 ft. I only threaten 1,985 squares this way on a 5 ft./square grid, so at least you stand a better chance of escaping my reach.

[SNIP AGAIN]

Pretty funny; good for a chuckle at least.

I personally dont agree with the 'Im bigger, therefore I have a harder time hitting smaller things' mechanic of d20 at all. If you increase the surface area of the attacking implement, accuracy is less important. But whatever.

The 'Im so heavy I cant lift myself' conundrum is one of the reasons larger creatures become increasingly stocky and point of diminishing returns is eventually reached where extra mass grants no benefit. It still annoying in a game system based upon the concept that more is always better.

 

[Thraxus]

Pretty funny; good for a chuckle at least.

Why thank you. If I can bring a smile to one person's face, then the insanity was all worth it.

I personally dont agree with the 'Im bigger, therefore I have a harder time hitting smaller things' mechanic of d20 at all. If you increase the surface area of the attacking implement, accuracy is less important. But whatever.

I agree with you on that, and my example took that rule to a ridiculous extreme. As much as I love 3e D&D and the d20 system in general, it has its drawbacks and I don't have a problem pointing them out.

 

[LordMelkor{Talos}]

Upper Krust, don`t you think that 20 outsider hit dice for most Deities makes sense even if you follow your distinction between Spirit and Soul Deities? Even if we consider let`s say Heironeus a Soul Deity, whose Divine Power originates mostly from worship, he propably spent a very long time in his realm in Mount Celestia, so he was propably infused with Planar Energy long enough to develop 20 Outsider Hit Dice.