Delayed blast fireball and gloves of storing.

[ConcreteBuddha]

Since Gloves of Storing use Shrink Item as a Prerequisite, I would propose that the gloves can only store nonmagical items, just as per the spell.

I know that the description of a Glove of Storing includes wands, however, this seems way overpowered for the 2,200gp.

I believe this was the original intention. It puts Gloves of Storing on par with and Amulet of Natural Protection (+1)

 

[James McMurray]

Of course, it also makes gloves of storing nearly useless, as most things you'll be wanting to get to as a fre action are going to be magical in nature (weapons, wands, potions, etc.)

 

[noretoc]

I don't see a problem with letting them put spells in stasis. The spells or effects can't be used while it is in the gloves, therefore, they are still getting the same amount of duration, just a little bit at a time.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I don't see a problem with letting them put spells in stasis. The spells or effects can't be used while it is in the gloves, therefore, they are still getting the same amount of duration, just a little bit at a time.

Noretoc, that "little bit at a time" is a very powerful feature. It effectively allows you to have a spell effect's duration cover only the time you need it, rather than a blanket period which will most likely consist of 10% useful time and 90% wasted time.

Consider the spell Haste, which has an x/round duration. How much more useful if you could use those rounds whenever you wanted, and not waste the rest (such as if a combat ends after 4 rounds, with 6 rounds of Haste remaining.)

Or consider the more relevant Greater Magic Weapon issue. At a low level, it might only last a few hours in the day. This means that if you have a battle in the morning and another in the evening, it won't be available for both. But if the gloves allow you to split this duration, then your weapon will be enchanted whenever you need it.

In short, the "little bit at a time" greatly, greatly increases the efficiency of duration-limited spells.

Myself, I allow it to store magic, but not prevent durations from running their normal course. It seems like the only balanced way to deal with it.

 

[James McMurray]

It may appear balanced at first glance, but when everyone in the party has +3 (or higher), flaming Burst, Keen (or the wooden one and Spikes) weapons, it get s abit out of hand. CRs are not designed to account for 9th level PCs having +6 weapons. It can also be scary with a bow in one glove and the arrows in another.

 

[Gaiden]

The description in the gloves clearly states that items stored in those gloves enter stasis. The torch example only further clarifies that anything inside the glove is in temporal stasis - i.e. paused.

The only problem so many people have is that this ability seems to be very powerful. Therefore, somehow they decide that what is clearly stated is obscure.

There is the obvious solution of making a HOUSE RULE that the gloves function differently than what is stated in the DMG. There is also the option of increasing the cost and XP for the item. However, having both DMed and played with similar examples (rhino hide, glove of storing, etc.) I think the best option is to let the rules stand.

For one thing both enemies and allies should have access to these powerful items. But more importantly, there is no reason why a good DM would not try and make a controlled market for these especially powerful items. This would mean that gloves of storing, rhino hide, and all other very powerful magical items are extremely hard to find and are tightly controlled.

One of my DMs does this for the entire school of divination magic. The elves control all divination and divining magical items. Thus if anyone delves into that realm that person mysteriously disappears, or suddenly goes insane, or some other such business. So, if you are of the opinion that any specific item is too powerful, incorporate that into the game, rather than making out of game rulings. If you think the gloves are too powerful, then have a group of clerics who all wear these gloves and kidnap, kill, (whatever) anyone else who finds one. And if the PCs should try and actually make one, then a whole campaign has opened up where the clerics are after them. Along these same lines, you could also require a research requirement for all magical items. According to the above example, if the PCs wanted to make the glove, they have to somehow get the (much coveted) information from the group of clerics.

When you think about this, everything balances out because now that the PCs have a the glove, they are fighting people who also have the glove - playing field is even.

Guess the moral is, from my experience, players hate it when the DM says you can't do this with the qualification that what they can't do is clearly defined in the rules, and it is just that the DM thinks that the rules allow the PCs to be too powerful. I find that it is much batter just to compensate for the shift in power in game terms - (and that doesn't mean then screwing over the PCs).

 

[James McMurray]

Gaiden: None is saying that the description of the gloves precludes storing of spells indefinitely. In fact, I am very much aware that it is a house rule to deny that. Heck, my current campaign sees both sides using gloves for this very purpose.

That being said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a DM sayign that the gloves don't work that way. Instead of having to create a large organization that stamps out users of the gloves, wy not just say it doesn't work that way? My players aren't so power hungry that they will complain when I do that (next campaign).

In fact, I've got one of those rare groups where the party members don't do certain things because its too powerful (even if only in their eyes and not mine). For example: Harm does not exist in my campaign. We replaced it with a spell that revives an unconcious cleric if he drops below 0 hit points. Also, the cleric in my game doesn't use high powered divination spells much, since he views it as "cheating." Of course, the party's enemies still do, which has made for some intersting scenarios.

 

[Gaiden]

Forgive me if I came across a bit harsh. I have been tempered as a player by RttToEE where every step is a struggle for survival. As a player I see the NPCs maximized to be the most effective that their abilities allow for. In order to see the next day, I must make sure my PCs (yes multiple - many have already died) use the best that's out there.

I guess an example serves better than my references to explain my point.

You have two fighters. Both are equally developed in terms of personality and roleplaying. The difference is that one has chosen to be the jack of all trades kind of fighter - taking expertise, powerattack, closequarters combat, the three save pumping feats, run and endurance, while the other has taken feat chains like dodge, mobility, spring attack, expertise, and whirlwind attack. While in different situations each fighter may be more or less effective. There is no question that the feats at the end of the feat chains are more powerful then taking just stand alone feats. Thus the whirlwind attacker has the edge. From my experience, unless I have my PC take the stronger of the feat chains, he won't stand a chance.

So translating to magical item creation. If my PC has a cleric in his party you better believe he's going to be making the gloves. The enemies certainly will. If there is a monk...yup, those boots are definite must haves. When I think about it, the PCs actually get pretty shafted because while they only have access to the DMG stuff, the enemies have access to all of the special stuff in the RttToEE book, like that psycho spell that makes the priest's eyes go red and suddenly the guy never misses and can't be touched in combat.

Further, when I DM, I do the same thing. It simply stands to reason that the enemies of the PCs really want to defeat them and they are going to use the best means possible (adjusted for the enemies wisdom and intelligence).

Lastly, incorporating any possible imbalances into the world, I find, is much more satisfying, both to DM and play. You can satisfy the players, you don't have to screw them over, and you can add story and content to your world even further.

 

[James McMurray]

I guess I just don't see it as "screwing them over" when they agree to it. I also think its too much work to try to find in game reasons to effectively ban gloves of storing when you can just as easily tone their power level down to what (in my estimate) was their designed use.

 

[kreynolds]

I guess I just don't see it as "screwing them over" when they agree to it. I also think its too much work to try to find in game reasons to effectively ban gloves of storing when you can just as easily tone their power level down to what (in my estimate) was their designed use.

True. If the player's don't have a problem with it, roll with it. I think Gaiden is just saying that, as a DM, he wouldn't reduce their power, and as a player, he wouldn't appreciate their power being reduced. I can respect that. However, I do feel that the gloves were meant to be used with mundance stuff like torches, standard equipment, weapons, etc. Once you get into storing a delayed blast fireball bead, it just gets wierd, even though it makes sense that you would be able to do that. The gloves are also useful for storing food, as it won't spoil, and plants, as they won't wilt and die. Nice item to have when you use funky spell components, like a live grub worm or something.