D&D 4E Demographics in 4E D&D

[Roman]

What do you think 4E D&D demographics will look like? What percentage of the population will have classes and at what level? (Note: I think there was a statement somewhere that there will be no NPC classes and these will instead be treated as monsters.)

 

[architect.zero]

Well, that's really difficult to answer. A DM's home brew world can have whatever demographics they like. It really depends on the setting in question and the tastes of the players involved.

For something like the default "points of light" setting I'd guess somewhere in the vicinity of 1 heroic (i.e. classed and <10th level) person per 10,000 people. Maybe 1 paragon per 500,000, and 1 epic per 5,000,000 or more. That's pure guesswork though.

I'm guessing that the incidences of classed individuals in Forgotten Realms would be much higher. In Eberron, probably a greater number of heroic persons, but extremely rare epics.

My personal preferences lean towards, maybe 1-3 epic individuals per setting and only a couple handfuls of paragons spread out all over the place. The rest would be heroics at roughly the 1 to 50,000 scale (or so).

 

[Roman]

It is true that the DM determines the demographics of his campaign world. I certainly do just that. I guess I am asking about the 'default' demographics, however, just like there are default demographics in 3.X edition. Essentially, I am interested in finding out what people think default demographics in 4E are going to look like and what they would want them to look like.

 

[TerraDave]

For something like the default "points of light" setting I'd guess somewhere in the vicinity of 1 heroic (i.e. classed and <10th level) person per 10,000 people. Maybe 1 paragon per 500,000, and 1 epic per 5,000,000 or more. That's pure guesswork though.

I'm guessing that the incidences of classed individuals in Forgotten Realms would be much higher. In Eberron, probably a greater number of heroic persons, but extremely rare epics.

My personal preferences lean towards, maybe 1-3 epic individuals per setting and only a couple handfuls of paragons spread out all over the place. The rest would be heroics at roughly the 1 to 50,000 scale (or so).

I think PoL pulls in the oposite direction. There just won't be that many people. The starting charecters may all come from the same little village, so it is ~4 heroes per 500 right there. And I expect a ratio like that, not because there are so many heroes. But because there are so few people.

 

[Gundark]

What do you think 4E D&D demographics will look like? What percentage of the population will have classes and at what level? (Note: I think there was a statement somewhere that there will be no NPC classes and these will instead be treated as monsters.)

I'm sorry it's a little unclear...are you talking about NPCs? Or are you talking about palyer character demographics?

I'm having a brain fart day today. I forgot my office keys, my cell phone charger and my belt at home today....so please excuse any slowness on my part.

 

[Irda Ranger]

What do you think 4E D&D demographics will look like? What percentage of the population will have classes and at what level? (Note: I think there was a statement somewhere that there will be no NPC classes and these will instead be treated as monsters.)

I think two things:

One, I think a POL setting will need a fair number of competent defenders (not "Defenders" the Role - any class or weapon training will do, including wizards) to protect your POL hamlets and burgs from the onslaught of regular goblin and orc raids. To use a Robert Jordan-ism: "In a PoL setting, everywhere's a Borderland Kingdom."

But Two, I think the DMG will explicitly say that classes are for PC's and or NPC's that the DM sees a campaign-specific need to stat up, and that's it. 99% of NPC's don't need the full class treatment and will have a simplified model to represent them. Therefore, there will be no "demographics" at all, with respect to "class."

I've been running a POL homebrew (trying to use the best of Iron Heroes, SWSE, Book of Nine Swords and 4E Previews) for a couple months now, and the "realistic" answer is that you need a fairly decent defensive force to hold off raiders. You need a couple retired High-Heroic/Low-Paragon NPC's around to hold off a Giant raid or small Dragon, and fair force of Low-Heroic (1st - 4th level) forces to answer to Bugbears, Orcs, bandits, Owlbears, etc. Anything less and the village / keep / town could be wiped out entirely in any given winter. What makes these guys different from the Heroic PC's though is that these guys stay home - they're the defensive line. The PC's are the ones that go out and meet the monsters / bandits / dark cults in their lairs to root them out and take their stuff.

Larger city-states and micro-kingdoms will support the occasional High-Paragon NPC, I guess, but there should not be any rules for having Epic Tier NPC's. That's what was wrong with Forgotten Realms. Epic Tier should be reserved for the PC's.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Well, I should think he means NPC demographics - assuming that not only PC's get to be classed individuals.

For demographics in my 3E games, I like a ratio of 1:20 PC class:NPC class, meaning that 5% of the general population is a PC class (1st level or above). I like a curve that increases in steepness as levels get higher. I can't really say what I'd like my 4E demographics to look like until I see the totality of how classes and NPC's are handled, but I do want WoTC to include a "baseline expectation" in the rules, perhaps with some discussion (in a sidebar, perhaps) of how modifying that baseline will affect your game. When it comes to this particular area, I'm more of a simulationist than I am in most other areas of the game.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

But Two, I think the DMG will explicitly say that classes are for PC's and or NPC's that the DM sees a campaign-specific need to stat up, and that's it. 99% of NPC's don't need the full class treatment and will have a simplified model to represent them. Therefore, there will be no "demographics" at all, with respect to "class."

I think that there still needs to be a demographic - even if its just to say that 95% of all NPC's are unclassed individuals. That harkens back to 1e and 2e in that most NPC's were 0-level.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

I harken a mix of FR and Eberron - lower levels, in general, but less common magic and more fighters.

 

[Irda Ranger]

I think that there still needs to be a demographic - even if its just to say that 95% of all NPC's are unclassed individuals. That harkens back to 1e and 2e in that most NPC's were 0-level.

They'll probably be just "3rd level humans" then, with maybe three or four categories similar to monsters.