Demonic Lore

[Shemeska]

2. why do Yugoloths lack portfolios? Demons mostly have races, devils have vices. The only yugoloth with a portfolio was Aranthax - and even he is gone.

2b- what does a yugoloth use for mortal servants - lacking both an ideology and a slave race doesn't leave obvious choices (although that may be on purpose.)

2) It's a bit too broad to say that demons have races and devils have vices. Some do, alot don't.

The 'loths have in general blanket nonspecific, impersonal evil. Some of their unique members have plague and disease associated with them (Anthraxus, Bubonix, Cholerix, Typhus, etc) while others don't (Taba, Cerlic/Charon, Mydianchlarus, Helekanalaith, Daru Ib Shamiq, etc) Rip came up with the idea that Mydianchlarus was obsessed with anonymity, which was something that he lost when he toppled Anthraxus and became Oinoloth, and it's an idea that I like. But there's no official answer here.

For my own purposes I've come up with a group of 13 Baernaloths who serve as the 'advisors' (desired or not) to the most powerful Ultroloths and unique 'loths, and each of them has a specific 'portfolio' if you will, along with a specific physical defect. But it's somewhat vague, and they haven't staked down a portfolio in specific like a deity might.

None of them are true deities, and 'loths abhor the very idea of deities, so they're not interested in gaining portfolios or worshippers in that sense. They're just interesting the manipulating the Blood War and supporting the universal spread of pure, neutral evil, untainted by law or chaos. Any way that will gather those ends they'll use.


2b) For the most part they don't have any specific mortal servants, and largely they're unconcerned with mortals beyond making them puppets and tools. The great part about corrupting mortals for the Abyss and Baator is that you can snag souls/petitioners which you can use to make more Tanar'ri or Baatezu, except that Yugoloths don't have any direct link to petitioners, most of them spawn directly from the raw stuff of the the Waste, Gehenna, and possibly Carceri. They don't need to have any specific groups or races, because the end product of that servitude isn't really all that useful to them.

They aren't choosy though, and the 'loths will dig their claws into anyone if it serves their purposes. Mortal wizards seeking knowledge are likely a particular delicacy for the arcanaloths of the tower arcane, since they as a subrace of 'loths effectively embody the idea of the abuse of sorcery to selfish ends.

And if you were looking for non mortal servants, well, you could make an argument for the Tanar'ri and Baatezu being at times unwilling pawns. But that's getting a bit beyond the scope of the original question.

 

[Ripzerai]

1 is there a demon lord affiliated with dragons?

I'm sure there is. For simplicity, you might use Pazuzu, who is patron of all flying things. Or you could create a layer ruled by an Abyssal or fiendish dragon. One fansite called such a being Telnenarjan, a fiendish or half-fiendish red dragon. See also here.

Or use Pazuzu.

2. why do Yugoloths lack portfolios? Demons mostly have races, devils have vices. The only yugoloth with a portfolio was Aranthax - and even he is gone.

Anthraxas isn't really gone, just wandering the lower planes. He can still be a dangerous antagonist.

For a list of powerful yugoloths, see this download.

2b- what does a yugoloth use for mortal servants - lacking both an ideology and a slave race doesn't leave obvious choices (although that may be on purpose.)

Any neutral evil creatures would be appropriate: goblins, kenku, evil human, halflings, and dwarves, drow, yugoloth-blooded half-fiends and tieflings (obviously), skulks, cloud giants, worgs, winter wolves, and yeth hounds would all work. Individual yugoloths might prefer specific species.

 

[Shemeska]

Any neutral evil creatures would be appropriate: goblins, kenku, evil human, halflings, and dwarves, drow, yugoloth-blooded half-fiends and tieflings (obviously), skulks, cloud giants, worgs, winter wolves, and yeth hounds would all work. Individual yugoloths might prefer specific species.

Mmm... yeth hounds. *flashes some fangs*

They're fun. My players may feel otherwise. Soon.

*cough* But anyways, tieflings and half-fiends w/ 'loth blood are what I tend to use about in equal proportion to just plain old neutral evil humans who happen to either be in league with a 'loth, gullible and being used without their knowing it, or working with them at the end of a dagger to their back, so to speak.

The cloud giants are a nice idea though. I'll have to keep that one in mind.

 

[countgray]

Also, it's somewhat confusing trying to tie all of this in with the larvae, which went from something exclusive to Hades (1e) to something that seems to transcend the Lower Planes. Larvae can be turned into quasits and imps, which can evolve to more powerful demons (like manes). What makes one dead CE character a manes and the other a larva?

--Erik

Larvae in 3E have been returned to their 1E exclusivity to the plane of Hades. Larvae only form in Hades. See the 3E Manual of the Planes pp. 108 & 109 for details about larvae.

Larvae are now/once again a special form of Hades petitioners. Hades has 2 kinds of petitioners. It has ordinary NE petitioners which look like they did in life, and also Larvae. Larvae are the forms taken by only the most selfish and malicious petitioners that come to Hades. The stats for larvae are on page 109.

What's interesting about larvae is that they do not have the "planar commitment" trait which means that larvae can be taken off plane. So unlike other petitioners that have "planar commitment", larvae are "portable" and can be taken, bought, sold, or travel themselves to other lower planes. This makes them a good comodity to be used as base soul-stuff for demonic and diabolic projects.

However, it should be noted also that both Manes and Lemures also have the Extraordinary Abilty "No Planar Commitment" and they too can travel freely about the planes. Which I suppose makes them useful for fighting the Bloodwar.

 

[Ripzerai]

I loathe the Planar Commitment trait. I don't see a point in it, other than to deprive players of getting to play petitioners, which I think would be really fun. And it arbitrarily goes away for a few kinds of petitioners just because it's inconvenient? That's bad design. Granted, I don't really want to play a larva, lemure, or mane.

We debated the larva topic earlier, Gray. I think the reason they were changed from only being Hades petitioners to being found in the Abyss and Baator as well was because imps and quasits are said to be made from larvae, and it seems inappropriate for LE and CE minions to be created exclusively from NE souls. It's for this reason, primarily, that I think larvae should be returned to their broader origin.

Arguably, they never left it - the Manual of the Planes is rather brief in places, and might just have left out the part about manes being larvae for a brief initial period for simplicity's sake.

 

[countgray]

I only wanted to answer Erik's question about the status of Larvae in 3e. They have been returned to Hades as they were in 1e. Larvae are only a specialized form of Hades petitioner in 3e.

As for planar commitment, it is an official mechanic of the planes in 3e. I think it is an interesting rule, but have no "commitment" to it myself one way or the other. It is a rule that Erik will have to deal with when writing the codex.

If they decide to toss out the rule that is fine, I just think it should be done in a considered manner, with forethought, and not by error or failing to notice that the rule exists.

Also, I see no barrier to playing a petitioner as a character even with the "planar commitment" trait. It would seem a simple matter of introducing a feat that overides planar commitment for a petitioner. Or the introduction of a spell or magic item.

In fact, planar commitment I think could add some flavor to the game. It might be fun to try and defeat an opponent petitioner by doing a sunder or disarm attack on his planar non-commitalisman to send him back to his home plane.

You know, I actually have just convinced myself that I like planar commitment. It is a minor impediment that can add to the game by presenting interesting choices. It is easily overcome by a feat, spell or item. And it allows planar lords to keep petitioners in places that they don't want to stay, which creates drama and conflict to add to the adventure. I am all for planar commitment.

 

[BOZ]

interesting!

It is a rule that Erik will have to deal with when writing the codex.

exactly true. i suspect that has already been decided though, as he asked about that awhile ago.

 

[countgray]

Perhaps. They seem like they are really on the ball. Just trying to do my part to help out.

I think a feat, spells or magic items that play with planar commitment have yet to be addressed and could make for an interesting mechanic to include in the book.

For instance, a spell to temporarily supress planar commitment so a petitioner can travel through a portal without teleporting away to a random destination on his assigned plane.

Or a spell to reassign or attune a petitioner's planar commitment to a new plane.

Or a spell to give an outsider planar commitment (who hadn't previously had it) for the purpose of binding it to a specific plane, either temporarily or permanently.

Add in the feat "planar free agent" to let petitioners wander where they will and be used as PC's, and a handful of magic items that deal with the mechanic, and you have filled a few paragraphs of the requisite crunchy pages with some useful information for players and DM's alike.

Also, a little lore about planar commitment and why the lack of it makes the larvae such valuable commodities for the Night Hags to trade in would be interesting too.

Something for the writers to think about, at least, if they haven't thought of it themselves already.

 

[BOZ]

there you go. i don't know if they are still reading... and when they are, they are usually quiet about it.

 

[BOZ]

found another creature:
Dungeon #64, "Grotto of the Queen," page 22 features the Tribute Gatherer, an octopus-like creature that serves the goddess Umberlee.