Dervish with Whirlwind Attack feat

[Zaebos]

Umm, the dervish dance is a special abilty (actually an Extraordinary ability), and by definition not allowed to be combined with whirlwind attack.

PH 102 "When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats or abilities (such as the cleave feat or the haste spell)."

SRD "When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities."

Glossary "A special ability is either extraordinary (Ex), spell-like (Sp), or supernatural (Su)."
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_specialability&alpha=S

MM Page 6 Special Attack and Special Qualities "A special ability is either extraordinary (Ex), spell-like (Sp), or supernatural (Su)."

I would rule you can not use whirlwind attack in conjunction with dervish dance since dervish dance is an extraordinary (Ex) special ability.

The bonus on attack and damage would not apply, and the ability to move a minimum of 5' between each attack would not apply.

 

[Dracomeander]

Your reasoning is flawed.

The Dervish Dance does not grant extra attacks. It changes how he is able to move while making a full attack. As he becomes more proficient with the dance, the dervish gains virtual feats of Cleave and Great Cleave which would have to be forgone if the conditions are met during a Whirlwind Attack. By the quotes you are referencing, there is nothing that precludes the use of Whirlwind Attack while employing a Dervish Dance.

 

[atom crash]

I would rule you can not use whirlwind attack in conjunction with dervish dance since dervish dance is an extraordinary (Ex) special ability.

The bonus on attack and damage would not apply, and the ability to move a minimum of 5' between each attack would not apply.

Except that the Dervish Dance ability doesn't give you any bonuses to attack or damage and no extra attacks. It allows you to move your full move rate while making a full attack, as long as you move at least 5 feet between each attack.

The Whirlwind Attack feat allows you to take the full attack action in order to make one attack against every opponent within reach. You can still (normally) move 5 feet between any two attacks as part of a full attack. The Dervish Dance ability allows you to move further.

Any "extra" attacks you might gain are the benefit of being able to move in order to bring more opponents within reach. The Dervish Dance ability doesn't allow you to make extra attacks. Your movement allows you to bring more opponents within reach, and Whirlwind Attack allows you to get one attack against each opponent within reach.

It is perfectly within the limits of WWA to attack one opponent, move 5 feet, then attack 4 more opponents who have just come within reach as a result of your 5-foot movement. If you use the Dervish ability, you can move further, thus you can reach more opponents.

"When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities." This part of WWA prohibits you from using Cleave, or Two-Weapon Fighting, or Haste, or weapons of speed. All of those grant bonus or extra attacks. Dervish Dance does not.

Edited to fix an error in reading of WWA text.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

SRD "When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities."

If I threaten 14 bad guys and WWA, what's the maximum number of attacks I can make?

If I threaten 14 bad guys and WWA and Dervish Dance, what's the maximum number of attacks I can make?

If I threaten 14 bad guys, and can threaten 5 additional by making a 5' step, and WWA, what's the maximum number of attacks I can make?

If I threaten 14 bad guys, and can threaten 5 additional by making a series of 5' moves and WWA and Dervish Dance, what's the maximum number of attacks I can make?

 

[Dracomeander]

Whirlwind Attack doesn't preclude Attack & Damage Modifiers (bonuses or penalties), it precludes bonus attacks such as gained through Cleave, Great Cleave, or Two-Weapon Fighting.

Response to Patryn:
All nineteen for ex. 3. Nothing is granting bonus attacks in your examples just logical extentions of the movement rules with Whirlwind Attack.

Ex. 4 would depend on how much movement the Dervish is able to make.

 

[Zaebos]

Dervish dance does give bonus to attack and damage.

 

[atom crash]

Dervish dance does give bonus to attack and damage.

You're right. Dervish Dance gives a level-dependent bonus on attack and damage rolls with a slashing weapon.

But:

Whirlwind Attack doesn't preclude Attack & Damage Modifiers (bonuses or penalties), it precludes bonus attacks such as gained through Cleave, Great Cleave, or Two-Weapon Fighting.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Dervish dance does give bonus to attack and damage.

So do Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization.

What's your point?

 

[Zaebos]

I don't know, the way I read whirlwind attack, it seems to me that it is referring to abilities, extra attacks, and bonuses granted by other feats, spells or abilities.

I can see how you are reading it as well... and I think both have merit... I suppose it seems it is the general concensus here that 'your' interpretation is correct.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I don't know, the way I read whirlwind attack, it seems to me that it is referring to abilities, extra attacks, and bonuses granted by other feats, spells or abilities.

Well, what it says is:

WHIRLWIND ATTACK [GENERAL]

Prerequisites: Dex 13, Int 13, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, base attack bonus +4.

Benefit: When you use the full attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your full base attack bonus against each opponent within reach.

When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities.

Special: A fighter may select Whirlwind Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats.

I believe that you are reading the important sentence as "When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfet any bonuses or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities."

Instead, it is more properly read as "When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfet any [bonus or extra] attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities."

Otherwise, someone who makes a Whirlwind Attack loses his +1 on attack rolls from Weapon Focus, the +1 from Bless or inspire courage, the +2 on attack rolls and damage from Barbarian rage, etc.