Desert of Desolation - your experiences?

[Mark Hope]

These are definitely adventures that play far better than they read. Remember, we are talking about some pretty old 1e adventures here - the standards for what constituted a great adventure were very different to the current norm. Every "i" did not need to be dotted, nor every "t" crossed (nor every "hp" rolled). If it is fun, go with it and wing your away around the speed bumps - 1e style at its purest. Calling the design staff "slack", "incompetent", "stupid" or whatever is going a bit far, imho. The relatively minor issues you raise are by far overshadowed by the finer elements of the adventure (such as the concept and design of the pyramid, the oasis factions, cults and lairs, the sea of glass, the demiplanes linked to Martek's tomb, the degraded societies in Martek's garden etc etc). I'd advise actually playing them through with a decent DM and seeing if you share the same opinions then .

 

[Quasqueton]

Every "i" did not need to be dotted, nor every "t" crossed

Missing hit points is a missing dot or cross. But this adventure was missing whole paragraphs -- the hows and whys of major elements.

There's a +3 ring of protection lying on the floor of a vacant area; there is a sphinx sitting in a 30'x30' room; there is a dozen bandits holed up in the room right next door -- with no explanation what-so-ever as to how, why, or when. And there are a dozen more examples of this lunacy. <throws up hands>

How this can be called "great design" is completely beyond my comprehension.

Edit:

Remember, we are talking about some pretty old 1e adventures here - the standards for what constituted a great adventure were very different to the current norm.

There were better modules produced earlier than these.

Quasqueton

 

[Ranes]

Well, Quas, I always enjoy reading these threads but it seems you've really got more than you bargained for this time.

I never played, ran or even read these modules but I've decided to add them to my list of wants now. Go figure.

 

[Quasqueton]

Well, Quas, I always enjoy reading these threads but it seems you've really got more than you bargained for this time.

What did I bargain for? I'm just discussing the modules -- exactly the reason I started these threads.

I never played, ran or even read these modules but I've decided to add them to my list of wants now. Go figure.

Great. When you get them and read them, come here and tell what you think.

Quasqueton

 

[Warrior Poet]

When Scotty's halfling landed the killing blow they all mobbed him. It was awesome. Scott was 3 or 4 years younger than everybody else in the group and always treated like the little kid, so it was a really cool deal for him to get to be the hero.

Haven't played the module (it was one of the few I missed growing up), but as a younger brother who got to play, on occasion, with his older brother and his older brother's friends in a few game sessions, and who always looked up to his older brother, I just wanted to say that was probably a totally great moment in your brother's life. I bet he remembers it to this day.

Excellent story, and a great moment in RPG-games, I'd say.

Warrior Poet

 

[Mark Hope]

Missing hit points is a missing dot or cross. But this adventure was missing whole paragraphs -- the hows and whys of major elements.

There's a +3 ring of protection lying on the floor of a vacant area; there is a sphinx sitting in a 30'x30' room; there is a dozen bandits holed up in the room right next door -- with no explanation what-so-ever as to how, why, or when. And there are a dozen more examples of this lunacy. <throws up hands>

These are not "major elements". But I can see why you might find this approach frustrating. My feeling is that not every adventure needs to have the presence of every item or creature explained. I like the freedom to spin ideas off myself - or leave it as an unexplained D&Dism, with which the game as a whole is already replete.

There were better modules produced earlier than these.

Quasqueton

Yes, there were. Doesn't make the play experience of these three awful though. Anyway, it's clearly a subjective issue of taste - some gamers don't like this kind of approach to module design and some do - it's not a flameworthy issue. At the end of the day, the play's the thing .

 

[Melan]

There's a +3 ring of protection lying on the floor of a vacant area; there is a sphinx sitting in a 30'x30' room; there is a dozen bandits holed up in the room right next door -- with no explanation what-so-ever as to how, why, or when. And there are a dozen more examples of this lunacy. <throws up hands>

How this can be called "great design" is completely beyond my comprehension.

Quasqueton

Again, you assume that these things you are talking about bother everyone. Let me assure you, they don't. And if they do, we change them. End result: awesome module after about an hour or two of additional work. About your specific examples -- dungeon ecologies may be an ubiquitous philosophy in modern games, but it is hardly an universal concept of "good design". The sphinx is there because it is cool. The bandits are also there because they are cool (granted, the sphinx is more cool). Maybe the latter are worshipping the former. Or maybe they are just next to each other. And there is a cool 3d dungeon architecture puzzle in the Sphinx room.

I give you: these are not the elements the dungeon is famous for. Nope. The dungeon is famous because of the innovative use of 3d dungeon environments, the interesting NPCs and the fiendish challenges facing the player characters - right from the maze through the Dome of Flight to the Clay Golem guarding the heart of an undying wizard...

Also, I would never claim Pharaoh is flawless (and the railroady bits in Martek are just horrendous - I skipped them entirely). I'd just say - I and my players enjoyed the campaign immensely.

 

[S. Baldrick]

Pharaoh was the second module that I ever DMed. I eventually ran Oasis of the White Palm as well. All in all, the two modules that I did run are two of the best modules of all time in my opinion

 

[Arnwyn]

All those of you who say this is a great module, are you smoking crack? Or just looking back through rose-colored glasses.

Since I've updated this adventure to 3e, it's "neither" of course. The real answer, "smoking crack" and "rose-colored glasses" notwithstanding, is that I'm nowhere near the same universe as you in pickiness.

Edit: that "smoking crack" comment reads much harsher and in-your-face than I intended. Take it as surprise, not as confrontational.

Taken, with a raised eyebrow.

 

[Andre]

IMO, Quas's criticisms of the module are well-deserved, in the same way that the first Star Wars movie was panned by so many critics. For whatever reason, these modules seem - in play - to be much more than the sum of their imperfect parts. My group played these in 1E and I still remember that they were a blast, if a bit railroad-y.