D&D General Design issues with 5e

do not think that bonuses are too low, especially at high rolls, but skilled users need "protection" from low end results.
Thats the point.

+2 is too weak and inconsequential compared to a d20. It cant makes bad rolls decent or pull you well above to the very hard DCs.


might as well delete CON as a stat. move it's saves to STR. STR needs utility boost.
give everyone +2 HP per level.

that is not the problem, it's how little is being called for. If you split it into 3 skills as in 3e you will get even less usage out of spending a skill proficiency on it.
There has to be a logical fallacy that just because someone doesnt utilize something well it doesnt make it useless.

5e was oversimplified in STR out of Jock hate and Athletics ignorance prevalent in the community and it fostered imbalance at the end point.

Eventually the TTRPG space has to realize that it is mostly made by nerds and theater kids, and they have to hire a jock for consultation for the Athletics aspects of the game..
 

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Well, based upon all the responses we have seen thus far, the answer appears to be to never bother making a 6E at all because no matter what they do or what individual things they change, it will piss off over half of you, LOL! :D
With a smaller number of us ending up amused. ;)

A 6e will be made. WoTC can't let Kobold Press or EN Publishing outdo them. They have a reputation to uphold. /s. 😛
 

I have a minor thing I'd change. Unless I'm off in my understanding there's no specific order to Action, Bonus Action, Movement. But just this weekend one of my players said, "you can't use your bonus action until after your action." I would rather see D&D move to a 3 action economy like Nimble V2, *finder, Cosmere, and probably others. No real opinions on whether you have a multi-attack penalty like *finder or have attacks be main hand then off-hand like Cosmere.

Someone really early on (page 1) mentioned moving from rigid classes/subclasses to something more like *finder class feats that would allow for archetypes, solving for the need to multiclass. I think that could be neat. I also like Cosmere's system that reminds me of CRPGs and JRPGs where you have a skill-tree. I don't know if the meta ends up with everyone picking the same options if they're min/maxxing, but either system allows so much customization that you could have a table full of bards which all have completely different skills and actions.
 

I have a minor thing I'd change. Unless I'm off in my understanding there's no specific order to Action, Bonus Action, Movement. But just this weekend one of my players said, "you can't use your bonus action until after your action." I would rather see D&D move to a 3 action economy like Nimble V2, *finder, Cosmere, and probably others.
Only Pathfinder 2nd edition makes use of the 3-action economy. It is much simpler than the action economy used by PF1. However, it kind of puts a crimp on what a player would like their player to do.
 

There isn't really much that outright bothers me, but there are a few things that could have been done differently without calling it an outright design flaw.

1) The one exception to this and what I find to be a design flaw is the Ranger and Hunter's Mark. Hunter's Mark should be a Ranger-only ability, and it should neither require a bonus action to apply, a bonus action to transfer, nor require concentration to maintain. The Vengeance Paladin's Vow of Enmity exactly fits what Hunter's Mark should look like. And given that WotC explicitly stated concerning Clerics that they wanted their subclass features to play nice with the base class, they already knew about the issue and should just have transferred that idea to the Ranger.

2) Divine Smite does not need to be a spell. It could have remained a class ability. If the idea was to limit it to one use per round, this could have been achieved by simply adding the respective wording "once per turn". They managed to do just that with Eldritch Smite and I don't really see a reason why the two had to be mechanically different. If the intention here was that multiclassing characters could stack the two, Divine Smite also didn't need to be a spell.

3) Not a design flaw per se, but something that begins to bother me. Some people struggle with the wording of features, abilities, spells, and other aspects of the game and at times, something in the early chapters of the book needs to be read alongside something in the rules glossary to understand what the rules are for a particular situation. There's already the term "rules lawyering", but when you design the rules like this, it makes it appear like you want people to at least take a pre-law course at the local community college to be better equipped. I went to law school and in some situations, reading the rules feels not all that different from reading the General Terms and Conditions of a legal contract. And if you know even just the majority of the rules, some would regard you as a veteran. On top of that, people argue over RAW and some really dig their heels in to a point that reminds of fanaticism and zealotry. I think, instead of having all these specific rules, it would have been better to have fewer general rules and to allow the individual tables to make these determinations, especially when they even explicitly said that the rules are more intended to be a framework. But I guess, given that people regarded Jeremy Crawford's rulings as official, despite their inconsistencies, and then again unofficial after the release of SAC, people might have a desire for definitive rules. But even when it comes to simple things, the seemingly ever expanding number of rules can cause issues.

- For example, ranged attacks against targets within 5 feet have disadvantage unless the target is incapacitated, so then you need to flip through the book to see what causes the target to be incapacitated. Stunned and paralyzed targets, for example, but was it really necessary that those two are different conditions? They both cause the Incapacitated condition, they both cause the target to fail strength and dex saves, and they both give attack rolls against the target advantage. The only difference is that the Paralyzed condition also reduces the creatures speed to 0, and attacks from 5 feet are autocrits. With a 60% overlap, I'm really wondering whether that was necessary.

- Speaking of 5 feet, the prone condition can create similar strange situations. Why did it have to be "within 5 feet" rather than "melee attacks"? So, a Bugbear using his long arms or a creature using a reach weapon and attacking from 10 feet away has disadvantage? Why? Similarly, a Barbarian Berserker's Retaliation feature has a 5 feet range, so Bugbear Berserker or a Berserker using a Polearm can't use it even if the target is within their 10 feet melee range. Why?

- If I compare these rules to other areas, for example the change to Polearm Master that no longer views the Reactive Strike as an Opportunity Attack to prevent Forcelance builds, there is no or very little mechanical reason here to make this as convoluted or restrictive as it is.

4) From a more holistic point of view, in some cases, it feels like classes are not distinct enough. In some cases, it even feels like that some classes could have just been subclasses to other classes. That applies to both martials and spellcasters. There are several ways how this could be approached differently. Wizards and Sorcerers have much overlap with regards to their respective spell lists. Sorcerers and Warlocks share a lot of the same underlying concepts like the Great Old One Warlock and the Aberrant Mind Sorcerer. Sorcerers and Bards are both Charisma-based casters like Druids and Clerics are both Wisdom-based casters. Maybe not from a mechanical perspective, but from an RP-perspective - or what some call "class silhouette" - if there is struggle to make classes clearly distinct from one another, maybe they shouldn't be separate classes. Now, in some cases, I can see how it works with what we have. Druids and Clerics, for example, are both Wisdom-based casters, but they have vastly different spell lists and while one has Channel Divinity, the other has Wildshape. But we could have approached this from the angle of Nature Caster vs Divine Caster as a choice in the class progression, providing Wildshape and access to specific nature spells with one choice and providing Channel Divinity and specific divine spells with the other. Where that would be better, worse, or the same is for everyone themselves to decide.
 

Only Pathfinder 2nd edition makes use of the 3-action economy. It is much simpler than the action economy used by PF1. However, it kind of puts a crimp on what a player would like their player to do.
Also SF2e unless I'm deeply mistaken? I'm also assuming you only mean for Paizo? Because I know Cosmere has a 3 action economy - I run it biweeklyt.

But does it really put more of a crimp on what someone can do than D&D's action/bonus/move? Just this last weekend at my table, "I do spell blah-de-blah."
"do you have any bonus actoins?"
"none I can take"
"Do you want to move?"
"No, I'm where I need to be"

How is that more constraining than:
"I use one action to do my spell"
"do you want to do antying else or move?"
"No, I don't have any other 1-action things to do and I don't want to move"
 

Also SF2e unless I'm deeply mistaken? I'm also assuming you only mean for Paizo? Because I know Cosmere has a 3 action economy - I run it biweeklyt.

But does it really put more of a crimp on what someone can do than D&D's action/bonus/move? Just this last weekend at my table, "I do spell blah-de-blah."
"do you have any bonus actoins?"
"none I can take"
"Do you want to move?"
"No, I'm where I need to be"

How is that more constraining than:
"I use one action to do my spell"
"do you want to do antying else or move?"
"No, I don't have any other 1-action things to do and I don't want to move"
I am more familiar with PF2's 3-action economy.

If you want to cast a spell in PF2 that had all three spell components (V, S, M), each component of the spell would cost you an action. 5e has it where it costs a single action, a bonus action or a reaction to cast the same spell.
 

I am more familiar with PF2's 3-action economy.

If you want to cast a spell in PF2 that had all three spell components (V, S, M), each component of the spell would cost you an action. 5e has it where it costs a single action, a bonus action or a reaction to cast the same spell.
Ah, Ok. I see what you mean there
 

Please read both our posts.
I did but wanted to give you a fair chance but since you like images
1773163276636.png

Not going to look for a gif version
He was referring to the 5e wight.

I don't play 3.5e and I don't care for it.

Basketball Ok GIF by Malcolm France
It's hard to find a better example than ghouls for of a monster going from interesting with a somewhat unique & terrifying role that doesn't depend on being a cthulu in power armor analog or having a Terex scale load of Hit Points.

The 3.5 wight had 26hp & a terrifying negative level granting ability that generally consumed a 4th level restoration spell to clear unless the victim just ate it & continued adventuring in an edition were resting for 24hrs could easilyresult in a death spiral from minor interruptions.

That level drain was such a threat that a wight simply existing in a combat changed how urgent killing the other monsters was even when the PCs were well above and could expect to trivially smash ithe wight

The 5e wight has either 2014 version: 45hp & an almost meaningless max hp reduction -OR- the 2024 version has 82hp & what is still a not particularly scary maxhp reduction ability both in an edition where resting 24hrs is trivial.
45 is greater than 26 & 82 is very much greater than 26.
 
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