Detail Discussion

[Rystil Arden]

While that's sort of true that it coudl take 5 minutes to type it all out, the resolution should take longer in game. Thus my thought of creating a workplace and a market, which puts that character into an ingame environment with NPC's, etc. to craft it which is ruled over by a judge. In game the above should take quite a long time for a first level character to do, although it shouldn't be out of the realm of the abilities of a first level to do.

Right, it needs to take quite a long time. Very very long. I don't think anyone in LEW has something as valuable as that suit of Adamantine Full Plate even now after many years of playing.

 

[Xael]

In a Living Setting, you need to think pessimistically so you don't have to 'patch' something after damage has been done.

True, at least partially.

I don't have a (large) problem with hard limits on making (extra) money, but I have problems with things that restrict other things that aren't the actual problem, like crafting in general.

frostrune, I agree with pretty much everything in your post.

Rystil's "craft stuff and sell it to players and become god" is technically possible. Though I seriously doubt that there will be enought (PC) market for the character to gain enough money to craft anything game-breaking with nonmagical items.

The example needs a lot of other PCs with money to buy what the character is capable of crafting, and the characters need to be in the same place (inn or whatever) for this deal to happen. And I don't really believe that there would be enough possibilities for the character to make that much money in short time frame. There just aren't enough people playing with enough characters with enough money in the right place and also a need for the stuff the other character can craft.

 

[Velmont]

This may seem like a childish observation as I have never participated in a 'Living' game world before, but isn't the point of this glorious game to role-play heroes and slay monsters? Are there actually characters/people that would prefer to sit around and craft stuff vs join adventures and kick monster booty?

I think a Living World is something more than a simple adevnture. Let's take for example Rinaldo di Senzio, my first character in Living ENWorld.

Rinaldo is a merchant. His wish is to run a magical item shop, as his first business, travelling spice merchant, wasn't very productive. Sadly, magical items cost a lot, and Rinaldo need a minimum of fund. What allow you to gather fund easily? Adventuring. So Rinaldo start to do adventure to gather money for his shop.

Rinaldo is still a merchant, even at level 6. He is a Rogue 5 / Trader 1. As a rogue, his best skills are social skills, as a Trader, an homemade approved LEW Prestige Class, it devellop more his merchant skills. I just open my shop, but I still have very low funds. I ams till in adventure because Manzanita, a DM, is running a series of adventure where Rinaldo have join and feel bond to continue to the end. He made a deal and respect it.

But all Rinaldo aspiration is around this shop. The shop is made to buy, sell and pawn items from/to players. He have skills that allow him to sell ietms at 75% and should reach at some time 90% when selling item, and buying item at 90% of there value.

So how I see the Living World, it is meant to be a place to adventure and to do more. You have the chance to have a community. You might want to create your own shop, go into an adventure to save your homeland, come back and sell some items you just created, go back to save your kidnapped wife, come back and deals with the common landlord to have the contract to create all the sword use by his guards, then find the lost treasure of a forgotten race...

 

[Ferrix]

Right, it needs to take quite a long time. Very very long. I don't think anyone in LEW has something as valuable as that suit of Adamantine Full Plate even now after many years of playing.

Well, I think something like that should come down to where are they going to get 50 lbs. of Adamantine worth 15,000gp? The Workshop or Market judge could come up with an appropriate adventure for them to acquire the materials if they are really set on it. And lastly, do they think they can acquire that much valuable metal without attracting at least some attention?

It is a living world after all, actions like that could easily garner unwanted attention to a character. A 1st level character is going to be hard pressed to keep his hands on it.

 

[Velmont]

Right, it needs to take quite a long time. Very very long. I don't think anyone in LEW has something as valuable as that suit of Adamantine Full Plate even now after many years of playing.

I think the most valuable items around worth less than 10000 gp.

 

[Ferrix]

I think the most valuable items around worth less than 10000 gp.

Just a quick question, what's the highest level PC in LEW?

 

[Erekose13]

You don't need PCs to buy from you to make money. If all I have to do is type out the process I can do it very quickly.

I pony up the 100gp to make a MWstaff. Sell it at half for 150gp. Net profit = 50gp.
I pony up the 100gp to make a MWstaff. Sell it at half for 150gp. Net profit = 100gp.
I pony up the 100gp to make a MWstaff. Sell it at half for 150gp. Net profit = 150gp.
I pony up the 100gp to make a MWstaff. Sell it at half for 150gp. Net profit = 200gp.
I pony up the 100gp to make a MWstaff. Sell it at half for 150gp. Net profit = 250gp.
I pony up the 100gp to make a MWstaff. Sell it at half for 150gp. Net profit = 300gp.
I pony up the 100gp to make a MWstaff. Sell it at half for 150gp. Net profit = 350gp.
I pony up the 100gp to make a MWstaff. Sell it at half for 150gp. Net profit = 400gp.
I pony up the 100gp to make a MWstaff. Sell it at half for 150gp. Net profit = 450gp.
I pony up the 100gp to make a MWstaff. Sell it at half for 150gp. Net profit = 500gp.
I pony up the 100gp to make a MWstaff. Sell it at half for 150gp. Net profit = 550gp.
I pony up the 100gp to make a MWstaff. Sell it at half for 150gp. Net profit = 600gp.
~ repeat n times ~
I pony up the 100gp to make a MWstaff. Sell it at half for 150gp. Net profit = 2000000gp.
I buy an epic sword and go adventuring. Wee all at 1st level.

Without any meassurement of time you can't put any limit on how many times I do that. Time must be involved. For time to be involved fairly for everyone it has to be dished out at the same rate. For it to be dished out we must come up with a system of how to dish it out at first. Thus Craft Points.

Craft Points are better than Time Units dolled out at 1/RL day because when you look at something like a +4 sword. That costs 50,000gp or 50 days to construct. Sure thats not possible at low levels, but at 9-12 when it should be? I really don't want my 12th level wizard to sit idle for almost 2 months to make a sword for my fighter friend who could spend that time instead going on an adventure and leveling up.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Without any meassurement of time you can't put any limit on how many times I do that. Time must be involved. For time to be involved fairly for everyone it has to be dished out at the same rate. For it to be dished out we must come up with a system of how to dish it out at first. Thus Craft Points.

Aye, this is essentially my argument in a nutshell.

Craft Points are better than Time Units dolled out at 1/RL day because when you look at something like a +4 sword. That costs 50,000gp or 50 days to construct. Sure thats not possible at low levels, but at 9-12 when it should be? I really don't want my 12th level wizard to sit idle for almost 2 months to make a sword for my fighter friend who could spend that time instead going on an adventure and leveling up.

For this exact same reason, I hope to dole out the time in advance and have it regenerate at a rate of 1/day. So you can instant-craft that big sword, but it'll be 50 RL days before you can do that again. Heck, that's okay though. I've seen groups take longer than that in a single cave.

 

[Ferrix]

Erekose, I think that it is a bit naive to think that such a thing would occur. Especially if you have a judge/DM in the buy/sell transaction.

With the Market/Workplace scheme it would go more like this.

Workplace
Character takes the time to fashion the length of oak into a masterwork staff. craft check vs DC, resulting amount per day, divide total cost by amount per day equals days spent. Character then must go to the market to sell it.

Market
Character has to find a buyer, locates one, sells it. Must then locate the next 100gp work of materials for his next staff, finds a seller, goes back to workplace.

Repeat Workplace scenario
Finishes it, goes back to Market.

Market
Character has more difficulty finding a buyer, doesn't locate one this time. Is stuck with a masterwork staff until the next day where he can make another check (gather info perhaps?) to see if he can locate a buyer.

And it goes on. Thus no infinite loop of money, he's got to go through proscribed channels of a Workplace and a Market which are presided over by a judge who requires rolls to mitigate the creation/buying/selling affair, thus requiring out-of-game time because of the way PbP games work.

 

[Knight Otu]

Just a quick question, what's the highest level PC in LEW?

Currently, 6th. There was a temporary irregularity in that thanks to Bront and Rystil, but since it was temporary, it doesn't count.