Detail Discussion

[Bront]

Just one major point: Only "standard" variants can express dragonmarks, RAW*. Subraces can express aberrant marks, however.

* I think this is in the ECS; I know it is in the Player's Guide and the D&D FAQ.

Standard being SRD Core or Standard being PHB only?

 

[stonegod]

Standard being SRD Core or Standard being PHB only?

PHB: Half-orcs, half-elf, humans, (high) elf, (hill) dwarves, (rock) gnomes, and (lightfoot) halflings can have normal dragonmarks. All other sub-races of the above can manifest aberrant dragonmarks.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I don't see why the subrace rule would need to be true, though, particularly if the Grey Elf was the dominant racial flavour for the Aerenal elves. Now, races that are totally different (like the Drow) or that we are not including (like the deep halflings) obviously wouldn't have the Dragonmarks, and I would never take the Dragonmark feats with a nonhuman anyway unless I had a strong RP reason, but I see no reason to limit other people's RP fun by nixing their concept like that.

 

[RobotRobotI]

I don't see why the subrace rule would need to be true, though, particularly if the Grey Elf was the dominant racial flavour for the Aerenal elves. Now, races that are totally different (like the Drow) or that we are not including (like the deep halflings) obviously wouldn't have the Dragonmarks, and I would never take the Dragonmark feats with a nonhuman anyway unless I had a strong RP reason, but I see no reason to limit other people's RP fun by nixing their concept like that.

If a race is different enough to have an entirely different set of stats, I'd argue that they're 'totally different.' I don't see any reason to argue with that part of the RAW, since it's not that big of a deal (and really, anything that hinders the number of different flavoured elves we see is a good thing in my book.)

If you're taking out the entire range of Psionic races from the XPH entirely, I don't think saying 'There are a few limitations on subraces' is that bad.

 

[Rystil Arden]

If a race is different enough to have an entirely different set of stats, I'd argue that they're 'totally different.' I don't see any reason to argue with that part of the RAW, since it's not that big of a deal (and really, anything that hinders the number of different flavoured elves we see is a good thing in my book.)

If you're taking out the entire range of Psionic races from the XPH entirely, I don't think saying 'There are a few limitations on subraces' is that bad.

If a race is different enough to have an entirely different set of stats, I'd argue that they're 'totally different.' I don't see any reason to argue with that part of the RAW, since it's not that big of a deal (and really, anything that hinders the number of different flavoured elves we see is a good thing in my book.)

Well, keep in mind that these guys interbreed and breed true. My original idea (which was later preempted with the 'just play all the subraces anywhere') was to have Grey Elves be Aerenal elves and High Elves be Khorvaire elves, thus giving a slight rules flavour difference to the two to support the aloof love of the arcane of the Aerenal elves. Also, 'an entirely different set of stats' is an incredible exaggeration. They have exactly the same racial abilities, but add on -2 Str +2 Int on top of the usual +2 Dex -2 Con.

If you're taking out the entire range of Psionic races from the XPH entirely, I don't think saying 'There are a few limitations on subraces' is that bad.

I'm for keeping the Elans because they fit with the flavour of Eberron. But the other XPH races, or Random Race X from Book Y don't fit with Eberron's flavour--it shouldn't be a kitchen sink setting. Nonetheless, I contend that Grey Elves for Aerenal Elves does fit Eberron's flavour. It's not a dealbreaker for me if not, but I'd like to see some reasoning from the other side before I dismiss it.

 

[Bront]

I'm for keeping the Elans because they fit with the flavour of Eberron. But the other XPH races, or Random Race X from Book Y don't fit with Eberron's flavour--it shouldn't be a kitchen sink setting. Nonetheless, I contend that Grey Elves for Aerenal Elves does fit Eberron's flavour. It's not a dealbreaker for me if not, but I'd like to see some reasoning from the other side before I dismiss it.

The Khorvairre elves are from Aerenal at some point, as are the Valenar elves, so in theory, that would make them all Grey elves. So keeping all the subraces available doesn't realy bother me.

 

[MavrickWeirdo]

The Khorvairre elves are from Aerenal at some point, as are the Valenar elves, so in theory, that would make them all Grey elves. So keeping all the subraces available doesn't realy bother me.

The elves are refugees of several seperate cultures from all over the continent of Xen'drik.

"Aerenal" is the culture that became dominant after the extermination of House Vol. That being said (and considering how "Aerenal" culture feels about dragonmarks) I have no problem with the idea that only "standard" PHB races can have "House" Dragonmarks, but that sub-race variants can have Abberant Dragonmarks.

 

[Manzanita]

I got my ECS in the mail yesterday. I've started reading it. I didn't see much about hobgoblins. Are goblinoids not totally evil, as orcs are in tolkien? Are they more like the standard PC races?

Also, I think its worth discussing different point buys for different characters of a player. If we allow 3 PCs each, starting at 1st, 2nd, & 3rd level, perhaps the 3rd level PC should have a 25 point buy, the 2nd level PC a 31 point buy, and the 1st level PC, a 37 point buy. Or something along those lines. This would allow for a greater variety of PC possibilities and also give a smaller reward/drawback for those who play only one PC.

 

[Bront]

There are a few goblinoid nations, and Good and Evil are a bit more lenient. You also can be of any alignment and worship any deity (in theory).

And ugh, no. I'd rather just have 1 standard point buy at 32. Trading 3000 XP for 12 points is a no brainer to me. Remember, since they earn XP at almost the same rate till 4th level, players will be 4th vs 3rd quickly, and the 4th levelers will be hurting. Soon after that, they'll be almost identical in level, and it's even worse.

 

[stonegod]

I got my ECS in the mail yesterday. I've started reading it. I didn't see much about hobgoblins. Are goblinoids not totally evil, as orcs are in tolkien? Are they more like the standard PC races?

As Bront said, alignment is much less restrictive in Eberron than standard D&D. Pretty much there is no "always" category, and being evil doesn't necissarily mean being the Enemy of All Life (TM). And, goblinoids (and orcs) used to be part of a major civilization that Saved the World (TM) before collapsing on itself (long before humans arrived).

Here are some helpful links:

• Religion in Eberron Goes into relaxed alignment and how it affects clerics, etc.
• Intrigue and Betrayal Goes into the murky alignment question a bit.
• Goblin Uprising Discusses the goblinoid history