Dex modifiers when unconscious

[Larry Fitz]

Artoomis' earlier post did a nice job of quoting the rules and clarifying the effect of being unconscious on melee and ranged attacks. It did not at all cover spell saves and the mental and spiritual effects. Because the book actually says "A ranged attack gets no special bonus" we are left to wonder why it would not address the issue of other types of effects. It does seem odd to categorize tying someone up as the same as being asleep or at -3 Hp... If I'm bound, my escape artist checks are all made as if I had 0 Dex? No, the only thing affected here is that you are "treated" as if you had 0 Dex for purposes of AC only, for all other things your Dex stat is unchanged. The important thing is to apply a little common sense. There are actions you cannot take while unconscious, that you can attempt while bound. The question is can you exercise your will while unconscious? Does your Intellect matter while unconscious? My rule of thumb is yes, your will power functions as long as your "spirit" is within your body,. ie "Where there is life, there is hope." This is not contradicted in the rules, it does not say (that I can find) that an unconscious person is easier to Dominate, Hold (as in Hold Person), or Charm. As Artoomis said, "Helpless" is a clearly defined state of being in 3E. It doesn't mention Will saves because they are not affected. I disagree with adding the +4 bonus to melee attacks on helpless targets but not ranged attacks, however that rule is in black and white.

 

[Destil]

Did ANYONE even read my earlier post? The game effects of being unconscious are clear. Anything else (changes to Will saves, etc.) are most certainly HOUSE RULES and should be discussed that forum, not here. Ths is the place to discuss what happens, within the rules, when you go unconscious. That's been answered because the rules actually define it as a condition and give full rules for dealing with that state.

End of story.

I'd just like to chime in and agree on this. Of course however you want to play it in your game is fine, and perhaps some clairfication might be nice, but the accual rules are fairly clear on this.

EDIT: Also, this is very much in the spirit of the rules, since it still allows saves with no penelties except the hit to Dex. The only real issue is the willing / unwilling question.

 

[Li Shenron]

I am not sure to say the rules are fairly clear an how do spells affect unconscious characters. They are in fact very incomplete about this subject: we are assuming that since nothing is specified by the rules, nothing changes. It is fine to play that way, but I would have liked the rules to have addressed it in a more interested way.

I think this discussion is very interesting to me. I hope I don't sound harsh, but why don't we ask to move the thread to House Rules, instead of just saying that this thread must be killed because it doesn't belong here? Or is there already another one opened in HR about this topic?

 

[dkilgo]

There is a possibility that there is a rule on this somewhere, and we few people that have responded the the question at hand just have not found it, yet.

If you want to take this to the HR room then that is fine.

I still stand with my original post because nothing has been presented to change my opinion of the subject. The rule are very ambiguous on this subject, and quite possibly this subject needs to be addressed by the Sage. I know that his replies are nothing but opinions on how to deal with the situation, but atleast it would be something.