DEX - taming the uber-stat by not letting it add to AC

[Quartz]

In 5E combat, Dex is pretty much the uber-stat. It helps initiative, hitting, and damage and it also helps prevent you from being hit. Dex saves and checks are reasonably common. A Dex-centric character has a considerable advantage over others, especially in a point-buy campaign.

But what if we toned it down? Dex double-dips in setting both initiative and AC, so what if we removed the latter? We could replace it with the PC's proficiency bonus, capped by armour, or just do away with it entirely.

How would this affect gameplay?

 

[Dragonsbane]

Hmm I think it would change the AC system, including for monsters. Might be too much. Perhaps make Initiative something else? Dex + Int / 2? Or perhaps make Dex only for ranged attacks, and get rid of finesse? I would not change anything like this, personally though.

 

[77IM]

It doesn't make sense to me; nimble characters in light armor should be harder to hit, based on Dexterity.

Instead, I'd take away:

1. Initiative. This could be based on Wisdom (although then Wisdom risks becoming an uber-stat since Perception and Wisdom saves are both so common). Or make it class-based: rogues, fighters, and rangers get +5, while bards, monks, and barbarians get +2, and everybody else gets +0. (Your distribution may vary.)

2. Damage. Make all weapon damage based on Str. This is a back-door buff to Str-based warriors since they can now use bows and crossbows and still deal full damage (even if their attack bonus is less because their Dex is not as good as their Str). But the main goal is to nerf Dex-based melee characters who tend to be strong for all the reasons listed by the OP. If they're dealing less raw damage, it gives them incentive not to dump Str, and to find other ways to deal damage (like sneak attack, dueling style, multiple attacks, Sharpshooter feat, etc.).

3. Skills. If you are super liberal about using skills with different ability scores you could allow things like Wisdom (Stealth) or Intelligence (thieve's tools) or even Constitution (Acrobatics) or Charisma (Sleight of Hand). Taken too far, this can become absurd, and this play style is certainly a matter of taste.

 

[Xeviat]

But Dex only adds to AC for those without heavy armor. I think it might have been a mistake to bring medium armor back; I liked 4E's light vs. heavy armor.

Initiative only matters in the first round of combat (unless you're using a dynamic initiative system, which I'm really thinking of trying out).

Dex saves are common, but most of them are "for half damage". Str saves are common too, but they're usually to resist grapples and trips and pushes.

I think medium armor needs a buff (it should be better than light armor, since you need a proficiency for it) so that those with low Dex but not heavy armor can still have good AC.

 

[Li Shenron]

In 5E combat, Dex is pretty much the uber-stat. It helps initiative, hitting, and damage and it also helps prevent you from being hit. Dex saves and checks are reasonably common. A Dex-centric character has a considerable advantage over others, especially in a point-buy campaign.

But what if we toned it down? Dex double-dips in setting both initiative and AC, so what if we removed the latter? We could replace it with the PC's proficiency bonus, capped by armour, or just do away with it entirely.

How would this affect gameplay?

As others already wrote, Dex to AC is a major rule, and removing that will cause imbalance between classes that have good armor proficiencies and those without. You could give armor proficiencies to all, but then it will clash with the narrative, and a lot of players want a PC that doesn't wear armor.

Rather than doing that, remove Dex bonus to initiative. Let initiative be merely a d20 check with no bonuses, and you would have already toned down Dex enough for your purposes.

Dex saves aren't a big deal, so keep them as-is.

---

Maybe Dex would still be a very good stat, because it affects also ranged attacks and finesse melee attacks.

So if you still think that the change to Init is not enough, for finesse melee attacks, you could go back to the 3e way of just using Strength for all melee attacks (3e required you to spend a feat on Weapon Finesse if you wanted to use Dex, and it still didn't affect damage like 5e), and for ranged attacks I would just suggest to shorten all ranges of ranged weapons.

 

[Quartz]

As others already wrote, Dex to AC is a major rule, and removing that will cause imbalance between classes that have good armor proficiencies and those without.

Would it? Particularly if you were to replace it with the proficiency bonus?

 

[Sadrik]

DEX does:
Bonus to hit with ammunition and light weapons
Bonus to damage with ammunition and light weapons
DEX save against a great many spells and effects
Initiative bonus
AC bonus to no armor, light armor, medium caps 2, and heavy armor caps all
Bonus to Stealth skill checks
Bonus to Acrobatics skill checks
Bonus to Sleight of Hand skill checks
Bonus to Thieves Tools proficiency checks
Bonus to Vehicles (Land) proficiency checks
Bonus to Vehicles (Water) proficiency checks
Bonus to Instrument proficiency checks
Bonus to some types of Artisan proficiency checks

Changes I would make:
Bonus to hit with ammunition and light weapons
Bonus to damage with ammunition and light weapons - use STR except for crossbows where I would give them a virtual damage bonus (to account for all other weapons granting STR)
DEX save against a great many spells and effects
Initiative bonus - I can see moving this to WIS (Perception) checks, I can also see eliminating this for each side rolls 1d6 as 1e
AC bonus to no armor, light armor, medium caps 2, and heavy armor caps all - I think capping DEX is crap. I would not cap it and lower medium ACs by 1 and heavy armors by 2.
Bonus to Stealth skill checks
Bonus to Acrobatics skill checks
Bonus to Sleight of Hand skill checks - merge with Stealth skill
Bonus to Thieves Tools proficiency checks - make INT based and rename Locks and Traps Kit (not only thieves only care about locks and traps)
Bonus to Vehicles (Land) proficiency checks
Bonus to Vehicles (Water) proficiency checks
Bonus to Instrument proficiency checks - make CHA based
Bonus to some types of Artisan proficiency checks - make INT based

 

[Ahrimon]

My preference would be to change initiative from dexterity to intelligence. A quick mind helps more in reaction time than a nimble body IMO. And since Int is generally considered a dump stat for all but wizards, EKs, and ATs it would help bolster that stat.