Dex vs. Str

[DanMcS]

Wait a minute, are you playing the old rule that a natural 20 hits no matter what, or is there a skill/feat/something else that adds that? Because otherwise even a natural 20 won't let Mr. Strong hit Mr. Agile, and Mr. Agile will eventually kill Mr. Strong if Mr. Strong doesn't run away first. I've never played that nat20 is always a success or nat1 is always a failure. My group hates playing that way with a burning burning passion.

It's the default rule in both 3.0 and 3.5, not "the old rule".

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Wait a minute, are you playing the old rule that a natural 20 hits no matter what..

As far as I know, this has always been, and remains, the rule. A natural 20 always hits, regardless of AC.

 

[Droid101]

I've never played that nat20 is always a success or nat1 is always a failure. My group hates playing that way with a burning burning passion.

Should I move this post to House Rules? Not that I have the jurisdiction to do so.

And secondly, why do you hate it with a "burning passion?" Nothing is ever a sure thing in life.

 

[Darklone]

Well, sadly Mr. Strong went the easiest way to hit well. High strength.

Nat 20 hits always, that's a core rule, feel free to houserule.

True Strike from the mage won't help Mr. Strong, you can't cast it on someone else.

 

[Destil]

Humm... wasn't the original question how to alter encounters to make dex a better choice, not who will win a silly power gaming unevenly min/maxed battle between a str and dex fighter (Mr. Strong's lack of magical armor really stands out as silly in this context, compared to bracers +8 and a +5 buckler. And do those even stack, for the 3.5 ignorant?).

Anyway, off the rop of my head:

1- Start encounters at long range. Mr. Dex gets his to hit bonus on ranged attacks.
2- Use plenty of mooks. Often the str based types simply overkill their opponents and the damage disparity doesn’t matter as much.
3- Throw stuff at them that requires reflex saves, balance checks and the like. Mr. Strong's going to loose his footing and go sailing down a slope more often, and he'll have less of a chance or making the reflex save to keep from falling into the pool of caustic acid at the bottom too.
4- Ambush them. Mr. Dex is going to be in less of a world of hurt when he has uncanny dodge or just a higher imitative to help reduce how many sneak attack dice are headed his way.

 

[Fieari]

Well, sadly Mr. Strong went the easiest way to hit well. High strength.

Nat 20 hits always, that's a core rule, feel free to houserule.

Apologies. It's been houseruled so long in my group I'd forgotten it was ever official. Feh.

Well, it is an answer for the guy wanting to make dex more useful. Houserule that nat20 doesn't assure a hit.

 

[snarfoogle]

The core books suggest treating a 20 as a 30 and a 1 as a -10, that could help.

 

[thorimar]

Dex leads to disappointing builds...

I have a fellow player in one of my campaigns that had been playing an uber-archer(+5 Dex modifier) but for party balance decided to switch over to a melee-focused fighter. The party had a rogue (headed into Psionics) and a Dwarven cleric built for combat. The ex-archer and I talked about reworking his abilities but he insisted on keeping high dex and working in levels of monk (which require no armor/high Dex builds). I told him this was a sub-optimal idea for a melee fighter, but he didn't listen. In the two or three sessions since the rebuild be has been very ineffective and complains he is badly built. Str over Dex every time for melee. Words to live by.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I have a fellow player in one of my campaigns that had been playing an uber-archer(+5 Dex modifier) but for party balance decided to switch over to a melee-focused fighter.

I'm playing an archer at the moment... had my level progression all planned out... and then ended up in possession of an intelligent sword.

So now I'm taking something of a hybrid route... still picking up the archery PrCs I had in mind, but with the level in barbarian and the Power Attack feat, I'm definitely not quite as focused as I had intended.

And sure, maxing out Power Attack all the time might not be mathematically sensible, but it's fun!

-Hyp.

 

[Celtavian]

re

Our group eliminated Weapon Finesse. You may now use either your Dex or Str modifier for your attack roll, whichever is higher.

We made the change for the following reason:

1. We didn't think a Dex based fighter should have to waste a feat just to keep up with a Strength based fighter. The Strength based fighter already has a huge advantage in damage output.

2. I was thinking of using the Dex modifier for attack rolls. It wasn't practical as it would require a complete reworking of Attack/Full Attack in the Monster Manual. A task only I was willing to undertake. We compromised using both Dex and Str. We have to modify a few monsters and encounters here and there, but no where near what would be needed if we had made the change to Dex.

3. It fit better with novel versions of fast fighters. It's obvious that warriors like Drizz't and Artemis Entreri rely on their dexterity for martial prowess, yet in the game they would be getting their collective asses handed to them by Strength based fighters. Alot of people complain about novelists not keeping up with the rules, but I sometimes feel the game designers aren't keeping up with the novels or utilizing game mechanics that fit the reality of combat.