Dexterity, Reflex, and Sleight of Hand

[BRP2]

Is it just me, or does Slight of Hand and Reflex save pretty much cover any possible Dexterity check? List some examples ;p.

 

[javcs]

No.

Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, Ride, Tumble, Use Rope, etc.

How are you getting this theory?

 

[Sparafucile]

Well, Reflex saves are passive reactions to danger. Things happen to you. . . then you try to save against it.

Skills, such as Slight of Hand, are initiatied by the player. I don't see how you can use Slight of Hand for everything a player wants to do. . . unless I misunderstand the question. . .

 

[pawsplay]

Neither will let you catch a thrown object.

 

[Darklone]

Neither will let you catch a thrown object.

Actually... I did allow some players to catch thrown bottles or similar things... and there's always Snatch Arrow.

 

[BRP2]

No.

Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, Ride, Tumble, Use Rope, etc.

How are you getting this theory?

I said Dexterity check, not Skills checks that use Dexterity.

Hmm, catching, I've never through of that, but that's a good one.

 

[javcs]

A skill check that uses dexterity is a subset of a dexterity check.

Proof is in that most can be used untrained as a mere dexterity check.

 

[BRP2]

Except there is at the very least Strength and Constitution checks not covered by skills.

I'm asking if there is any Dexterity checks. If you think untrained skill checks makes them dexterity checks that's fine, but you are not really answering my question.

 

[javcs]

I cannot think of any off hand that can be covered by either a Sleight of Hand or a Reflex save.

After a quick scan through the SRD, I can't find Dexterity checks other than Sleight of hand or those that specifically mention Reflex saves that could, with a stretch, be covered under Sleight of Hand or a Reflex save.

Non-skill related Strength checks are generally either breaking/opening something or lifting something. Non-skill related Constitution checks are generally made either to continue doing some fatiguing activity or to stay alive.

Non-skill related Dexterity checks are generally something that needs to be preformed with precision, or to keep something level. There aren't as many for dexterity as there are for strength or constitution, but there are more dexterity skills.

To provide an example, your Reflex save wouldn't help you, say, thread a needle or fit complex components together properly, and your sleight of hand skills wouldn't help you thread a needle or fit complex components together.
A Reflex save won't help you keep some container of liquid level to prevent it from spilling, neither would sleight of hand. Your reflex save could keep you from getting hit with the liquid when yuo spilled, and your sleight of hand skills could let you pocket said container of liquid without being noticed.

There are checks that are not skills for a reason.

 

[Dei]

A Reflex save won't help you keep some container of liquid level to prevent it from spilling, neither would sleight of hand. Your reflex save could keep you from getting hit with the liquid when yuo spilled, and your sleight of hand skills could let you pocket said container of liquid without being noticed.

Actually, I can see how these could be argued to be SoH checks. SoH is all about having swift and sure fingers, steady hands and the ability to be quick and nimble with them. For actions requiring generic manual dexterity such as the aforementioned needle I believe I would allow SoH checks to be made.

As for the question of reflex saves though, the only thing I can think of would be something like using them to see if you manage to catch ahold of something while falling. An arguement could be made for them being used in situations such as catching something being thrown as if you look at proffessional catchers in sports they uniformly have excellent reflexes and catch things by watching their path and then reacting, sometimes with great speed (as with a reflex save). Points could be made in both directions though, it all depends on wether you view reflex saves as simply the ability of the character to get themselves out of harm's way or a representation of their actual "reflexes".