D&D General Did Greyhawk/Oerth exist in 4e canon?

Werthead

Explorer
Kara-Tur is mentioned in the Grey Box. It has ALWAYS been part of the Realms.
The Forgotten Realms first appeared in print in Dragon way back in the late 1970s. The first canonical mention of Waterdeep and Thay is in 1982 and the first mention of Baldur's Gate is in 1984, all long before Kara-Tur appeared in Oriental Adventures in 1985 and before it was formally added to the Realms setting in 1987 (with the Kara-Tur: The Eastern Realms boxed set followed in 1988, although they screwed up the scale and made Kara-Tur far too big, so it had to be scaled down in 1990's The Horde boxed set).
Nope, not always, as Ed Greenwood has stated many times that Kara-Tur was never part of his original version of the Realms. Kara-Tur was grafted to the Realms by some TSR staffer.
The history is a bit more involved than that. Gygax really wanted an Asian-themed sourcebook and pushed for Oriental Adventures for some considerable time (it was in the works for something like 3-5 years, which was an ice age compared to how fast some 1E and earlier books were created), which went through several iterations before settling on its final format under Dave "Zeb" Cook. As the book approached publication, TSR pulled off shenanigans that rotated Gygax out of the company. The original plan, that Kara-Tur would be located somewhere on Oerth, went out the window.

Interesting, Oriental Adventures only has a few pages of setting material right at the end mentioning things like Shou Lung only in very broad terms, and no map.

With Gygax gone, TSR staffers seemed to feel uncomfortable carrying on with Greyhawk setting material without him, and they also seemed to feel that Dragonlance was not a suitable replacement (too far from core D&D with no orcs or halflings, too many setting-specific species, the whole thing revolved around a metaplot and sales seemed to be well down on gaming material although the novels were still selling gangbusters). The first few Oriental Adventures-related adventures were likewise setting neutral.

In 1986, TSR bought the Forgotten Realms off Greenwood (who'd created them for home use in 1967, had been publishing fiction in them in local magazines and chapbooks in Canada since 1976 and been writing Dragon articles set there since 1979) and made the decision to disregard Greenwood's own expansive 1982-created world map (something he occasionally brings up as a source of mild irritation to this day) in favour of bolting on Kara-Tur to the eastern side of the Realms, early enough so it appears in the 1987 Old Grey Box. Around that time we also see Oriental Adventures line of adventures start to include Kara-Tur maps showing it on the eastern side of a continent (if it was going to be on Oerth and part of Oerik, by necessity it would have been on the western side).

People have been asking Ed to publish his original world map, which shows a completely different eastern side to Faerun, Laerakond (which did eventually appear in 4E, in a different context) to the west instead of Maztica, Anchorome as a massive island-chain to the north-west, and the mysterious continent of Arondron in the southern hemisphere, along with several other continents. He hasn't done that so far.
 

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Aldarc

Legend
I do find it kind of funny how little love PoLand gets from many of the old hands....because it was straight-up designed to be a kitbashed, make-it-your-own setting. It has its own nature and character, to be sure, but it is specifically made to be flexible and embrace a lot of different settings and conceits.
The explanation is easy enough: "Non-Tolkien Ancestries."
 


Vaalingrade

Legend
People were against the setting as soon as we knew there would be one with the 'Golden Wyvern Adept' feat, which... I actually have no idea what was wrong with it to this day. People said it was forcing flavor into the core, but that the same time were SO ANGRY about alignment restrictions going away.
 



Vaalingrade

Legend
Can you elaborate?
So early on in the previews for what would become 4e, they featured a feat for wizards who focused on using the wand implement (wizards in 4e acted more like pop culture wizards and cast using tools like wands).

It was called Golden Wyvern Adept.

The community exploded against this because--and again, I cannot emphasize enough how little sense this explosion made-- because it implied a core, in universe organization wizards belonged to.

People claimed that your wizard would have to be part of this Golden Wyvern group to take the feat, the first of many bits of misinformation conjured from the ether to attack the new edition.

This was the first battle of the edition war, coinciding with the idea that it was 'too soon' into 3.5 to move to a new edition and before we knew anything else about 4e.
 

Chaltab

Hero
So early on in the previews for what would become 4e, they featured a feat for wizards who focused on using the wand implement (wizards in 4e acted more like pop culture wizards and cast using tools like wands).

It was called Golden Wyvern Adept.

The community exploded against this because--and again, I cannot emphasize enough how little sense this explosion made-- because it implied a core, in universe organization wizards belonged to.

People claimed that your wizard would have to be part of this Golden Wyvern group to take the feat, the first of many bits of misinformation conjured from the ether to attack the new edition.

This was the first battle of the edition war, coinciding with the idea that it was 'too soon' into 3.5 to move to a new edition and before we knew anything else about 4e.
I'm so flabbergasted. there are core feats named after NV specific gods but this was the problem?
 


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