D&D General Did Greyhawk/Oerth exist in 4e canon?

[Paul Farquhar]

Canon is for stuff other people make for you to consume.

Nah, canon is a figment of hardcore fans' imagination, so they have something to argue about and get all angsty over.

 

[Parmandur]

Nah, canon is a figment of hardcore fans' imagination, so they have something to argue about and get all angsty over.

We all need a hobby.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

But was thst in Greyhawk, or repurchased for the Nentir Vale world?

I explained it in the post - it doesn't mention Nentir Vale in any way, shape, or form. It does, however, talk about being in the foothills of the Crystalmist Mountians. I'm not sure what else will convince you.

 

[Parmandur]

I explained it in the post - it doesn't mention Nentir Vale in any way, shape, or form. It does, however, talk about being in the foothills of the Crystalmist Mountians. I'm not sure what else will convince you.

Fair enough, I was just curious (that post where you mentioned the Cryatalmist was after the one I responded to, apologies for pulling the trigger a bit fast).

Still, that is about as much support as Mystara got in Ghosts of Saltmarsh: not much more than a mention of a geographical location.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Fair enough, I was just curious (that post where you mentioned the Cryatalmist was after the one I responded to, apologies for pulling the trigger a bit fast).

Ah, was it? I was wondering why it seemed like you were ignoring that part. Makes sense now!

Still, that is about as much support as Mystara got in Ghosts of Saltmarsh: not much more than a mention of a geographical location.

Yup.

 

[Staffan]

And there are other approaches as well. The FR wiki, for example, is very much trying to be authoritative for Realms canon... yet it ignores the official stance and still treats all five editions as part of Realms history. (We'll see how that goes when the 2024 5e Realms guides appear next year...)

Forgotten Realms has previously been working on the assumption of a single canonical setting, with various explanations for edition changes:
1e to 2e: Time of Troubles.
2e to 3e: No explanation, they just said that this was a more "authentic" Realms. E.g. the Symbul is an innate spellcaster, but AD&D didn't have those so she was statted as a Wizard. 3e has sorcerers, which is closer to the "real" Symbul, so that's what the 3e version is.
3e to 4e: The Spellplague followed by a timeline jump of about a century and merging with the world of Abeir that replaced Maztica.
4e to 5e: The Sundering which undid most of the Spellplague and Abeir-based changes, and convoluted explanations for how certain prominent NPCs are still around despite the time jump.

 

[Parmandur]

1e to 2e: Time of Troubles.

This, and tacking Kara-Tur onto the FR, is about where things went wrong.

 

[JEB]

Forgotten Realms has previously been working on the assumption of a single canonical setting, with various explanations for edition changes:
1e to 2e: Time of Troubles.
2e to 3e: No explanation, they just said that this was a more "authentic" Realms. E.g. the Symbul is an innate spellcaster, but AD&D didn't have those so she was statted as a Wizard. 3e has sorcerers, which is closer to the "real" Symbul, so that's what the 3e version is.
3e to 4e: The Spellplague followed by a timeline jump of about a century and merging with the world of Abeir that replaced Maztica.
4e to 5e: The Sundering which undid most of the Spellplague and Abeir-based changes, and convoluted explanations for how certain prominent NPCs are still around despite the time jump.

Yep, I'm aware! The 2014 DMG also supported the idea that 5e was broadly carrying on the canon of previous editions, pointing readers to earlier multimedia material when discussing various settings. That officially was no longer the case when the canon policy came out in 2021 (and had already been demonstrated by Van Richten's earlier that year). But thus far they haven't officially done anything that makes the modern Realms incompatible with earlier iterations. Again, we'll see if that changes when the 2024-5e guidebooks come out next year.

I'm no expert, but my understanding is that Greyhawk (like most D&D settings) operated the same way through 3e, an assumption of one developing continuity. Though I think I've heard there was some explanation for 1e to 2e changes, at least?

EDIT: Yep, this module apparently did a 1e-2e Time of Troubles thing for Greyhawk: Fate of Istus - Wikipedia

 

[JEB]

So let's see, the five official incarnations of Oerth then would theoretically include...

Oerth-1: As presented in the two World of Greyhawk sets, plus Greyhawk Adventures, and assorted 1e sourcebooks and modules.

Oerth-2: As presented in From the Ashes, The Adventure Begins, and assorted 2e sourcebooks and modules.

Oerth-3: As presented in the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, and assorted 3e sourcebooks and modules.

Oerth-4: A world where exists (per @Echohawk and others):

• The city of Greyhawk (per MOTP 4e)
• Mordenkainen and a dungeon site known as Castle Greyhawk (per Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium)
• The original site of the ruins of Castle Inverness (per March of the Phantom Brigade)
• Vomar Valsk's people (per Heroes of the Elemental Chaos)

Also possibly the setting of 1e adventures updated to 4e, such as The Village of Hommlet and Against the Giants (assuming those locations weren't replicated in the Nentir Vale).

Oerth-5: As presented in the 2024 DMG. (May or may not include any earlier 5e Greyhawk references, since the current printing of the core rules supersedes any previous material.)

None of the above would include Greyhawk novels or comics or video games, each of which is set in its own canon.

 

[Parmandur]

So let's see, the five official incarnations of Oerth then would theoretically include...

Oerth-1: As presented in the two World of Greyhawk sets, plus Greyhawk Adventures, and assorted 1e sourcebooks and modules.

Oerth-2: As presented in From the Ashes, The Adventure Begins, and assorted 2e sourcebooks and modules.

Oerth-3: As presented in the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, and assorted 3e sourcebooks and modules.

Oerth-4: A world where exists (per @Echohawk and others):

• The city of Greyhawk (per MOTP 4e)
• Mordenkainen and a dungeon site known as Castle Greyhawk (per Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium)
• The original site of the ruins of Castle Inverness (per March of the Phantom Brigade)
• Vomar Valsk's people (per Heroes of the Elemental Chaos)

Also possibly the setting of 1e adventures updated to 4e, such as The Village of Hommlet and Against the Giants (assuming those locations weren't replicated in the Nentir Vale).

Oerth-5: As presented in the 2024 DMG. (May or may not include any earlier 5e Greyhawk references, since the current printing of the core rules supersedes any previous material.)

None of the above would include Greyhawk novels or comics or video games, each of which is set in its own canon.

I mean, this fits fairly well with the 1E Manual of the Planes presentation of Alternate Oerth's