D&D General Did Greyhawk/Oerth exist in 4e canon?

[Parmandur]

Yeah, until the 50th anniversary provided a serendipitous way to kill two birds with one stone: celebrate a beloved setting synonymous with the game’s origin, and offer an exemplar setting for the new DMG. I think it was a wonderful choice, and am pleased as punch that Gygax’s OG setting will be a part of D&D’s core going forward. Then Faerun can remain as the default setting for most published adventures. It’s a win-win!

It really is a masterful stroke.

 

[Echohawk]

In another thread, realized that going by the official policy that every edition is its own canon, there would be distinct versions of the Greyhawk setting in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and now 5th Edition. But what about 4th Edition? I know it had takes on the Realms, Eberron, and Dark Sun, plus its core Nentir Vale setting, but did Oerth make any official 4e appearances? Or was it pretty much absorbed into Nentir Vale?

All we really know about 4e Greyhawk (at least from printed sources) is that it has Mordenkainen, five famous dragons, at least one pig farm, and is no longer home to the ruins of Castle Inverness:

• The Dungeon Master's Guide has a passing reference in the section on super adventures (p138), which says "Classic published super adventures have been set in the fabled ruins of Greyhawk [...]"
• Draconomicon: Chromatic Dragons includes a half page on "D&D (Greyhawk) Dragons" (p89) which has a paragraph each on Aulicus, Brazzemal the Bright, Calcryx, Farcluun and Nightscale. (I'm not sure what to read into that parenthetical heading. Does it imply that Greyhawk was/is the generic D&D setting?)
• The Manual of the Planes, in a section on the "the world" as one of the types of planes (p7), says that "Those who study such matters in the city of Greyhawk know their world as Oerth."
• The introduction to Primal Power (p3) mentions Greyhawk, but in the context of that being the name of the 1976 supplement that introduced the druid.
• The Player's Strategy Guide mentions Greyhawk in the section on Creating a New Background (p25-26) and in the example character story: "My human ranger grew up on a pig farm a few miles from Greyhawk".
• The Rules Compendium mentions Greyhawk as the first campaign setting in The History of the Game (p8).
• March of the Phantom Brigade which is based on the Ghost Tower of Inverness mentions that the original module was set in Greyhawk (p16). The adventure also suggests that the ruins of Castle Inverness were somehow transported to the Nentir Vale from Greyhawk, and the players find writing in a language that "originates from a distant place that sages have come to identify as Oerth".
• Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium has an introduction written by Mordenkainen (allegedly taken from his secret master copy of the Magnificent Emporium) that mentions his delves into the dungeons of Castle Greyhawk in his younger days and states that his world is called Oerth: "I am from this world, this Oerth" (p4).
• Beyond the Crystal Cave mentions (p64) that the original UK module was set in "a Faerielike subdimension called Porpherio’s Garden, which existed on an island in the world of Greyhawk".
• Player's Option: Heroes of the Elemental Chaos has a mercenary named Vomar Valsk whose "forefathers came to the elemental domains from a world called Oerth, long ago" (p49).

There are dozens more mentions of Greyhawk in the digital issues of Dragon and Dungeon magazine, but most of them are as minor as those above.​

 

[Parmandur]

There are dozens more mentions of Greyhawk in the digital issues of Dragon and Dungeon magazine, but most of them are as minor as those above.

Those are pretty minor.

 

[JEB]

All we really know about 4e Greyhawk (at least from printed sources) is that it has Mordenkainen, five famous dragons, at least one pig farm, and is no longer home to the ruins of Castle Inverness:

• The Dungeon Master's Guide has a passing reference in the section on super adventures (p138), which says "Classic published super adventures have been set in the fabled ruins of Greyhawk [...]"
• Draconomicon: Chromatic Dragons includes a half page on "D&D (Greyhawk) Dragons" (p89) which has a paragraph each on Aulicus, Brazzemal the Bright, Calcryx, Farcluun and Nightscale. (I'm not sure what to read into that parenthetical heading. Does it imply that Greyhawk was/is the generic D&D setting?)
• The Manual of the Planes, in a section on the "the world" as one of the types of planes (p7), says that "Those who study such matters in the city of Greyhawk know their world as Oerth."
• The introduction to Primal Power (p3) mentions Greyhawk, but in the context of that being the name of the 1976 supplement that introduced the druid.
• The Player's Strategy Guide mentions Greyhawk in the section on Creating a New Background (p25-26) and in the example character story: "My human ranger grew up on a pig farm a few miles from Greyhawk".
• The Rules Compendium mentions Greyhawk as the first campaign setting in The History of the Game (p8).
• March of the Phantom Brigade which is based on the Ghost Tower of Inverness mentions that the original module was set in Greyhawk (p16). The adventure also suggests that the ruins of Castle Inverness were somehow transported to the Nentir Vale from Greyhawk, and the players find writing in a language that "originates from a distant place that sages have come to identify as Oerth".
• Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium has an introduction written by Mordenkainen (allegedly taken from his secret master copy of the Magnificent Emporium) that mentions his delves into the dungeons of Castle Greyhawk in his younger days and states that his world is called Oerth: "I am from this world, this Oerth" (p4).
• Beyond the Crystal Cave mentions (p64) that the original UK module was set in "a Faerielike subdimension called Porpherio’s Garden, which existed on an island in the world of Greyhawk".
• Player's Option: Heroes of the Elemental Chaos has a mercenary named Vomar Valsk whose "forefathers came to the elemental domains from a world called Oerth, long ago" (p49).

There are dozens more mentions of Greyhawk in the digital issues of Dragon and Dungeon magazine, but most of them are as minor as those above.​

Thanks for the research! So a version of Oerth/Greyhawk definitely existed (in a fictional sense - wouldn't want you to misunderstand, @Paul Farquhar!) in the 4e continuity, they just didn't detail it in any cohesive way. (I gather Nentir Vale was similarly piecemeal, if much more substantive with its meal pieces; but that there had been plans to rectify that before 4e was sacked.)

One can only hope that someone in the presumably narrow Venn diagram spot between "4e fans" and "Greyhawk fans" puts it all together at some point...

 

[the Jester]

(I gather Nentir Vale was similarly piecemeal, if much more substantive with its meal pieces; but that there had been plans to rectify that before 4e was sacked.)

I don't think it needed rectification. The lack of details was a feature, not a bug; Nentir Vale was a "points of light" setting, with a few detailed areas of civilization separated by swaths of darkness. By the end of 4e, it had had a lot of development (mostly via adventures, but also through the 4e-era minis game and some of the board games), but was left- intentionally, I think- largely up to home dms to develop, much as Greyhawk started and is presented in the 5e DMG.

 

[JEB]

I don't think it needed rectification. The lack of details was a feature, not a bug; Nentir Vale was a "points of light" setting, with a few detailed areas of civilization separated by swaths of darkness. By the end of 4e, it had had a lot of development (mostly via adventures, but also through the 4e-era minis game and some of the board games), but was left- intentionally, I think- largely up to home dms to develop, much as Greyhawk started and is presented in the 5e DMG.

Sorry if the word "rectify" was offensive! But my understanding is that they had planned a dedicated Nentir Vale sourcebook, late in the edition (before they basically switched to a standby mode while 5e was being developed). Shame that will never see light now, though.

(Monster Vault: Threats to the Nentir Vale also seemed to be an effort to turn Nentir Vale into a more fixed setting.)

 

[Parmandur]

Sorry if the word "rectify" was offensive! But my understanding is that they had planned a dedicated Nentir Vale sourcebook, late in the edition (before they basically switched to a standby mode while 5e was being developed). Shame that will never see light now, though.

(Monster Vault: Threats to the Nentir Vale also seemed to be an effort to turn Nentir Vale into a more fixed setting.)

As I understand it, the book was canceled extremely early in development, so nothing much was done other than announcing it would be written (a practice which WotC has radically moved away from).

 

[JEB]

As I understand it, the book was canceled extremely early in development, so nothing much was done other than announcing it would be written (a practice which WotC has radically moved away from).

Ah, too bad. Maybe we'll learn something about the plans in some future D&D retrospective, then...

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Kinda hard to, when the current edition is clearly following that policy in practice. Better to just accept it.

What does it mean? What does it matter in practice?

 

[JEB]

What does it mean? What does it matter in practice?

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