Did someone declare January "Edition Wars" month?

[PapersAndPaychecks]

It wasn't intended to show the flames but the possibility that if there was an organized effort to post on ENWorld, it may have been organized in these "secret" messageboards (hence I edited out the flames but included the link to show I'm not making it up). The one thing that caught my eye was the bunker buddy thing. I'd seen it used as an accusation of organized behind the scenes agreements to coordinate posts to flame, ignore, or generally drive off a poster. I'd always thought the existance of such a group was pure fiction, regardless of its motives.

Oh, there are hidden forums all over the web. Dozens of them. I haven't checked, but I bet ENWorld has at least one (for the mods and admins, if nothing else).

It's true that I'm a member of several of these. I'm a member of the contributing writers' forum on Dragonsfoot, the mods' and admins' forum on Knights & Knaves, various OSRIC-related forums and so forth. It's a convenient way of communicating without interference from the charming Mr Halaster Blackcloak and his ilk, and if you're interested enough in the subject to read the thread linked above, you'll see plenty of reasons why we took that decision.

Yes, OSRIC was in development over a substantial period of time, and yes, most of the work was done behind closed doors. That was particularly true before we were certain of the legal implications of what we were doing! We went a bit more public once we had a reasonably playable draft and the detailed thoughts of the lawyers to hand.

Of course, there are always people who think the Sekrit Forums must be full of Bad People who're plotting to take over the world or, even worse, proselytise a particular game system on ENWorld (the horror!)

Several points in response to that allegation.

First, it's simply not true.

It's true that I'd quite like it if more people played OSRIC (or at least, used it to publish their material). It's also true that some of the other posters here would like that. It's not true that there's a co-ordinated campaign to "convert" ENWorld to OSRIC, and in my view any attempt to do so would be futile and self-defeating.

OSRIC's out there, and it's free. Look! Free stuff! Help yourselves, if you're interested. No pressure, no obligation, and if it's not for you, no problem. Thanks for listening.

And that's my whole message. Sinister, huh?

Second, it's certainly true that more posters have come over here to talk about 1e. Why is that?

Well, first, perceptions of ENWorld have shifted over the last six months. It used to be that people believed that ENWorld was for the discussion of 3.x, and that's all; and that ENWorld was full of 1e-bashers and haters.

That's changed recently, and I think that one of the main causes of this shift in perception was Henry's public support for OSRIC (for which, incidentally, Henry has earned my profound gratitude!) The other mods have also chimed in on more than one occasion to say that ENWorld is for all editions, and even though the primary focus of the site is 3e, it's perfectly okay to talk about 1e here.

With an invitation like that, is it so surprising that there's been a response?

The idea that it's a co-ordinated board invasion from DF is, frankly, laughable. You'd have to know the DF site mods to understand quite how silly it is... take it from me, they would not stand for any such funny business.

Of course, once people start talking 1e more here, you get more posters who're interested in 1e crawling out of the woodwork. Why is this surprising? Personally I haven't started any threads about 1e, I've simply replied to those that existed. But others have started them, and why not?

I've certainly participated in these threads. I like to think I've remained civil and factual when putting across my view and correcting certain misapprehensions that I've observed.

I'm getting the feeling that this isn't entirely comfortable for some of the posters here, though. So let's talk about it.

There was a recent spate of threads around 1e, mostly sparked off each other.

What I think is that these 1e threads kept getting visited by drive-by threadcrappers who dropped in and said, "Wow, I'm so pleased all this rubbish got fixed in 3.x," and then disappeared.

And, um, yeah, that gets a reaction. Not too surprising when you think about it. So some of the pro-1e posters (and I like to think I've avoided this temptation, but I understand the reasons others haven't) have thought, "Oh yeah?" and dropped into a passing 3.x thread to do the same thing.

And then bingo, we have 1e -v- 3e threads and cries of "board invasion!"

It's not a big deal imo; the sky isn't falling, and I rather imagine that the "compare and contrast" threads will disappear when people get bored of them. But what do you think?

 

[PapersAndPaychecks]

Working on anything else?

Yup.

 

[Maggan]

Although, there seems to have been a decision not to go to ENWorld.
http://www.knights-n-knaves.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2502

Well, that was ... hmmm ... interesting. One might even say enlightening.

As has the responses and clarifications in this thread been. I guess one thing I learned is that when EN World gets heated, it's nothing compared to what goes on at many other sites.

And I'm glad for that.

/M

 

[Quasqueton]

I feel the need to stand up for MerricB. In that linked-to thread, he was insulted, directly, by name. MerricB is the most well-mannered, nicest, thorough, and honest (intellectually and other) poster on this forum. His knowledge and understanding of the rules for both D&D3 and AD&D1 are impeccable.

Quasqueton

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I feel the need to stand up for MerricB. In that linked-to thread, he was insulted, directly, by name. MerricB is the most well-mannered, nicest, thorough, and honest (intellectually and other) poster on this forum. His knowledge and understanding of the rules for both D&D3 and AD&D1 are impeccable.

Quasqueton

I agree. Outside of one bad thread a while back he is quite a nice fellow from what I can tell and seems to really love his D&D. If I could get one person from here to run a 3e session to show me how the system can really fly I'd pick him in a heartbeat.

Plus can anyone who loves Greyhawk like that truly be bad?

 

[tx7321]

As a long time lurker, and someone that started playing D&D back in the late 70s, I found it
amazing that the water temp here had gotten low enough to jump back in the pool. I suspect alot of others who prefer 1E and OD&D feel the same way. So, I don't see any reason to turn the temp. back up and boil us back out. If anything, ENworld, as a community, has been very friendly and warm to those who prefer 1E in the last 6 months. I think a few posters brought up 1E after OSRIC got released. And when they weren't jumped on, others followed. ENworld used to have a bad reputation as being intollerable toward players of "other versions". Perhaps the looming 4E has given you a since of empathy, as you are (in probably under a year) going to be unsupported by WOTC.

Anyhow, I agree with MerricB, that talking about the history of D&D and comparing editions is "fun". And I also agree with Treebore, to each there own. You can't expect every player to prefer 1 game universally, think about it, we're all different people with different personalities (some math geeks/programers, some into history, others into fantasy novels, still others into acting out theatricly, etc.). Everyone preferring 1E or 3E would be like everyone buying only 1 model of car from 1 manufacturer. OD&D players seem to gravitate to it because its so simple. 1E because its fast but complex (and a bit more developed then OD&D developed) enough to hold their interest, 2E for the epic stories, and 3E because of its slick system and abilit to build PCs in a customized way (forgive me if I'm wrong here).

I realize thats a gross simplification, but its clear each system has its own market, and the players that prefer that system probably have other things in common. What irritates people is that WOTC promised everything to everyone and didn't deliver. C&C came along to rectify that, and now OSRIC has come along to go even further back. I'm sure before long there will be a OD&D style OSRIC (perhaps Diaglo will write it) for publishers of OD&D support material. Now that we all have a supported game we can buy (OSRIC the book will be for sale at sometime) its much easier to have discussions comparing the different versions of D&D without it getting so heated.

I also agree with the other poster who said, some of the 3E players in here might be getting defensive....DON'T!!! Look at the polls going on what game you prefer (one I started). This place is still strongly 3E territory...and we are just guests. And if we use ENworld as a place to find more of us (other lurkers who might see there's other people playing 1E or OD&D) then be happy for us. Remember, the same thing might eventually happen to you. ENworld may one day become 4E territory, and you may find yourself trying to find others who remember 3E and want to talk about it. Anyhow, thats my 2 cps.

PS as MerricB stated, comparing editions is fun and educational. If you don't feel like you can contribute without getting upset, please don't. I think alot of this frustration is from those that don't like to compare editions getting stuck in the middle of it. Either just read the posts or don't open those threads at all and move on to something less stressful. Let those who enjoy friendly debate over systems (like MerricB and Treebore) have a place to do so. No one is forcing you to open threads that you will get stressed by reading.

 

[Maggan]

What irritates people is that WOTC promised everything to everyone and didn't deliver.

They sure didn't send me that pony they promised me! Or diabolical powers to possess all earthly treasure!

Seriously, what was it they never delivered that you were promised?

/M

 

[tx7321]

Magan, it was "leaked" here and other places (before 3E was released) that 3E was going to be a return to 1Eish D&D. Hype was built (I think intentionally) by WOTC to get old 1E players (who didn't like 2E) to buy the game when it was released. I jumped in and purchased all the core books. It wasn't until I started to play that it became clear 3E was nothing like 1E. Apparently 2E players felt jilted as well (as I remember). What also sucked was the redefinition of what D&D was. 2E kept the majority of the core rules of AD&D1. But 3E changed over to the D20 system, and broke the archetypes into customizable creations. That "sting" came out of the blue. It would be like going down to the store and buying the latest Monopoly (the earlier being out of print) and finding it had changed the basic rules drastically to the point it wasn't the same game anymore (but kept the name Monopoly as a Brand to make money).

Anyhow, thats how I see it, and I'd wager alot of other chaps see it as well.
Luckily, I think time has calmed things down.

 

[dcas]

What irritates people is that WOTC promised everything to everyone and didn't deliver.

From the success of the game it is evident that WOTC delivered a lot to a lot of people.

 

[Aaron L]

I dunno, comparing ENWorld to a scab and stuff like that doesn't seem too pretty. :\

Sarcasm!