Did someone declare January "Edition Wars" month?

[Desdichado]

I started with BD&D, played AD&D1 for ~15 years, dabbled in AD&D2, then dropped the game. D&D3, with its back to its roots feel, brought me back to D&D.

Same here, mostly. Except I dropped the game entirely before 2e came out and played other RPGs instead of D&D because I was so frustrated with AD&D1.

 

[tx7321]

Agreed, 3E did a good job of revitalizing the old 1E players. Many stopped playing 1E when 2E came out (moved on got married had kids) then when 3E came out got interested again. Those that bought 3E probably stuck with it, but a few discovered (or rediscovered) 1E or OD&D and picked up that torch. So, 3E has been good, in a way, for 1E and OD&D. I'm sure without 3E we wouldn't have C&C, or OSRIC either.

 

[Treebore]

From the success of the game it is evident that WOTC delivered a lot to a lot of people.

Very true. But on the flip side the fact that people are still playing the older versions of D&D or quitting 3E and going back to them or C&C is also proof that they did fail to attract, let alone keep, many.

 

[Treebore]

What, you mean you missed the count down to third edition in Dragon? It talked rather explicitly about what was going to change, if I recall correctly. So it's not like WotC was saying "look it's gonna be AD&D1st" and then pulled a fast one.

For my part I felt and feel that D&D3e returned to focus on many of the thematical elements that defined 1e, ie Back to the Dungeon, as their catch phrase was. I never ever got the impression that it would actually be AD&D1st, but rather an updated rules set, based on many of the same assumptions that made AD&D1st fun to play.

Having being reared on far more customisable rpgs than D&D3e, I feel that they still make room for archetypes, what with being class based and all. A side effect of that is also that I've been exposed to quite a lot of other gaming systems, and find that AD&D1st and D&D3e has a lot more similarities than what I think many give them credit for.



Ah, so I see you play the "alot of other people think so too" card. Well unfortunately, based on the success and praise for D&D3e, a lot more people don't think so too, so that card isn't as powerful as it could be if you had the numbers on your side. Which makes the "a lot o people think so too" rather moot.

M

Well, if you want to put this in the context of playing cards, your Dragon magazine card is bad because your assuming a magazine with a print run of 50,000 informed everyone about the changes. Somehow I think claiming a magazine with a print run of 50,000 informed millions of people who played D&D is a bad card to play.

Plus, I think OSRIC, C&C, and other venues have indeed proven there are a lot of people who thinks so too. Maybe nothing like the million or so who may play 3E, but it is definitely in the thousands. I consider thousands to be a lot of people. So I think that is a very valid card to play. Not moot.

One thing that going back to C&C has taught me is that 3E is definitely very archetype, so I agree with you on that.

 

[tx7321]

It will be interesting to see how many 3E players jump to 4E and leave 3E behind as an old memory. I wouldn't be surprised to see an upswing in the popularity of C&C and 1E either once 4E pops in...to the point that it equals the number still playing 3E? Probably not, but the 2 groups will move closer in number as 4E gobbles up the market.

 

[Desdichado]

Very true. But on the flip side the fact that people are still playing the older versions of D&D or quitting 3E and going back to them or C&C is also proof that they did fail to attract, let alone keep, many.

Depends on what you mean by "many." WotC has stated before that all the other roleplaying game systems combined aren't enough to constitute a meaningful blip on their radar compared to D&D.

I think that was before the release of C&C, but I've certainly never seen anything to convince me that C&C has been a runaway success that's significantly eating at D&D's market share.

 

[Raven Crowking]

It will be interesting to see how many 3E players jump to 4E and leave 3E behind as an old memory. I wouldn't be surprised to see an upswing in the popularity of C&C and 1E either once 4E pops in...to the point that it equals the number still playing 3E? Probably not, but the 2 groups will move closer in number as 4E gobbles up the market.

Depends on what 4e is like.

I like the complexity of character creation in 3e, but I don't think that monsters need to be as meticulously balanced (easier to create new monsters + smaller stat blocks = good in my book). I like the idea of NPC classes, but for my own game I've toned down their abilities (so PC classes shine more). Etc.

4e might, after all, be the Golden Nirvana of all gaming.


RC

 

[Treebore]

reported

I might point out your insulting tone is not cute.

I'll have to take your word for it as to ENWorld, as you can see I've not been at ENWorld as long as you, post very frequently nor am I a fee paying member. So I don't get the "your members" comment. I'm also unaware of this great ENWorld boycott, if it was in the last year I missed it.

What is my concern? I raised no concern. Are you just being sarcastic to put words in my mouth and ascribe to me things you don't like about ENWorld?

If you look at my post track record, as thin as it is, I think you'll see I agree that 1e has a certain feel, even if I don't agree with your views on 3e. Look also at where I'm trying to explore mechanistics reasons that support your view that D&D is not 3e, even if I don't agree. Finally, I have had loving words to say to some of the views of thedungeondelver expressed on his website.

His use of "boycott" is way too strong, but there was a long time where this board was very much in danger of being like the WOTC boards. Fortunately people who wanted a friendly ENWorld board have largely prevailed and those who like to tolerate nothing but 3E posts are very much the minority here.

So its only been the last couple of years where ENWorld has solidified its reputation as being one of the friendlier boards around. Plus, as these threads about "hate" etc... are showing is that there are still steps that need to be taken to become even friendlier.

So lets hope ENWorld can take those steps and become a bigger and stronger internet community because of it. It is literally up to us individual posters to make it happen.

 

[thedungeondelver]

4e might, after all, be the Golden Nirvana of all gaming.


RC

You mean it'll be a return to 1e?!

 

[Raven Crowking]

No. I mean that it might take the strengths of various editions and wrap them up in mechanics that don't remove them. I think that the 3e combat system & bloated stat blocks remove two great strengths of 1e play -- fast adventure writing, and fast play. However, I'd hate to see the great strengths of 3e -- diverse, complex characters and greater diversity in the way creature attacks are handled -- disappear in the wash.

(I like the idea of a unified mechanic, where it seems appropriate, but have no objection to subsystems. To me, elegance is not the be-all and end-all of rpg design.)