Did someone declare January "Edition Wars" month?

[Maggan]

That "sting" came out of the blue.

What, you mean you missed the count down to third edition in Dragon? It talked rather explicitly about what was going to change, if I recall correctly. So it's not like WotC was saying "look it's gonna be AD&D1st" and then pulled a fast one.

For my part I felt and feel that D&D3e returned to focus on many of the thematical elements that defined 1e, ie Back to the Dungeon, as their catch phrase was. I never ever got the impression that it would actually be AD&D1st, but rather an updated rules set, based on many of the same assumptions that made AD&D1st fun to play.

Having being reared on far more customisable rpgs than D&D3e, I feel that they still make room for archetypes, what with being class based and all. A side effect of that is also that I've been exposed to quite a lot of other gaming systems, and find that AD&D1st and D&D3e has a lot more similarities than what I think many give them credit for.

Anyhow, thats how I see it, and I'd wager alot of other chaps see it as well.

Ah, so I see you play the "alot of other people think so too" card. Well unfortunately, based on the success and praise for D&D3e, a lot more people don't think so too, so that card isn't as powerful as it could be if you had the numbers on your side. Which makes the "a lot o people think so too" rather moot.

M

 

[Raven Crowking]

I feel the need to stand up for MerricB. In that linked-to thread, he was insulted, directly, by name. MerricB is the most well-mannered, nicest, thorough, and honest (intellectually and other) poster on this forum. His knowledge and understanding of the rules for both D&D3 and AD&D1 are impeccable.

Quasqueton

AND he knows more about D&D history than any three other posters.....four, if one of those posters is myself.

 

[Desdichado]

Anyhow, thats how I see it, and I'd wager alot of other chaps see it as well.

Depends on what you mean by "alot of other chaps." The prevailing opinion seems to be that 3e does indeed return the game to it's early roots in most respects, while simultaneously taking advantage of the 30 some odd years of improvements that the industry itself has wrought on game mechanics in general.

I'd wager that your "alot of other chaps" are a statistically insignificant blip. But since neither of us can prove that, the "alot of other chaps" play is pretty weak tea at best.

 

[tx7321]

Q: "From the success of the game it is evident that WOTC delivered a lot to a lot of people."

Agreed. 1E players (that stopped playing D&D after 2E became popular) were a handful of people by the time 3E came out...compared to the entire market.

Maggan, yeah I missed the later stuff that was buzzing around here before the release. I stopped reading ENworld just after the D20 system was released, and different artwork (then what ended up in the books) was floating around. Just didn't have the time at that time. So, perhaps I'm one of the few that felt a bit tricked...though I've heard others (who were on these boards) mention feeling a bit dooped by WOTC as well.

J-Dawg, no reason to get so nasty. I presented this as my experiance and opinion, you can disagree without having to feel so threatened. Please try to keep a friendly tone, we are all gamers afterall.

 

[thedungeondelver]

Q: "From the success of the game it is evident that WOTC delivered a lot to a lot of people."

Agreed. 1E players (that stopped playing D&D after 2E became popular) were a handful of people by the time 3E came out...compared to the entire market.

I always felt that the (hollow) "Greyhawk as default setting again!" and cosmetic touches like reusing the dungeon from the DUNGEON MASTER'S GUIDE and other little things were just...bluh. I mean if that was their idea of "reaching out" to old school gamers then...well, thanks for the cookie, I guess.

Little things like that irritate the hell out of me about WotC. I mean, they recently published the maps from G1, G2 and G3 on their own website like they're these cool, awesome things - and there is absolutely no context given for them at all. Not "These maps were originally used in ... " or "Gary Gygax designed these fiendish giant lairs for the ... "

As evidenced by many people in this particular forum, there's folks who didn't start playing D&D until far, far later than a lot of us, and I think things like reposting the maps without any background is a huge disservice to them, because they are totally without any context at all.

I've said it before, d20 D&D doesn't "feel right" to me as a rulesystem because it isn't really a bridge back to my style of gaming. It's a bridge to bring in your Forgotten Realms/Dragonlance/started-playing-with-2e folks. While I recognize that they can't be shut out (folks bought a lot of FR stuff - myself included if you count a couple gold box games for my C64!), I wish there'd been a hell of a lot more for me in d20 D&D.

 

[Umbran]

When the great Enworld boycottt was still in effect, it was done because a large group of your members were renowned for general nastiness across the net. Some were even banned from websites preemptively, they were so rude and nasty.

You know, edition wars are bad enough. Let's not start going down the Board Wars line at the same time, hm?

Folks, from this point on, let what happens elsewhere stay there. Please don't bring percieved slights between boards into this discussion.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I always felt that the (hollow) "Greyhawk as default setting again!" and cosmetic touches like reusing the dungeon from the DUNGEON MASTER'S GUIDE and other little things were just...bluh. I mean if that was their idea of "reaching out" to old school gamers then...well, thanks for the cookie, I guess.

Little things like that irritate the hell out of me about WotC. I mean, they recently published the maps from G1, G2 and G3 on their own website like they're these cool, awesome things - and there is absolutely no context given for them at all. Not "These maps were originally used in ... " or "Gary Gygax designed these fiendish giant lairs for the ... "

As evidenced by many people in this particular forum, there's folks who didn't start playing D&D until far, far later than a lot of us, and I think things like reposting the maps without any background is a huge disservice to them, because they are totally without any context at all.

I've said it before, d20 D&D doesn't "feel right" to me as a rulesystem because it isn't really a bridge back to my style of gaming. It's a bridge to bring in your Forgotten Realms/Dragonlance/started-playing-with-2e folks. While I recognize that they can't be shut out (folks bought a lot of FR stuff - myself included if you count a couple gold box games for my C64!), I wish there'd been a hell of a lot more for me in d20 D&D.

There are a lot of posters here who started with 1e and were brought back to D&D by 3e. Heck even though I don't play 3e regularly I hadn't gamed in a couple years when I saw the new core books and bought them.

 

[Umbran]

I've said it before, d20 D&D doesn't "feel right" to me as a rulesystem because it isn't really a bridge back to my style of gaming. It's a bridge to bring in your Forgotten Realms/Dragonlance/started-playing-with-2e folks.

You know, there's one simple problem with that thought - you don't need a "bridge back" to where you already are! 2nd Edition AD&D was the current edition of the time, FR the major setting. Those people didn't have to "go back" to anything.

 

[Rothe]

reported

I might point out your insulting tone is not cute.

I'll have to take your word for it as to ENWorld, as you can see I've not been at ENWorld as long as you, post very frequently nor am I a fee paying member. So I don't get the "your members" comment. I'm also unaware of this great ENWorld boycott, if it was in the last year I missed it.

What is my concern? I raised no concern. Are you just being sarcastic to put words in my mouth and ascribe to me things you don't like about ENWorld?

If you look at my post track record, as thin as it is, I think you'll see I agree that 1e has a certain feel, even if I don't agree with your views on 3e. Look also at where I'm trying to explore mechanistics reasons that support your view that D&D is not 3e, even if I don't agree. Finally, I have had loving words to say to some of the views of thedungeondelver expressed on his website.

 

[Quasqueton]

There are a lot of posters here who started with 1e and were brought back to D&D by 3e.

I started with BD&D, played AD&D1 for ~15 years, dabbled in AD&D2, then dropped the game. D&D3, with its back to its roots feel, brought me back to D&D.

* * *

If you go through and pay attention to names, you'll find that there is only about 6 people regularly and persistently starting the edition fights.

Quasqueton