Did someone declare January "Edition Wars" month?

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
I have to agree. You can dislike many things about 3E, but lack of information from WotC about what to expect seems like a strange complaint. Between Dragon, the Web site and Eric Noah, my group pretty much knew exactly what we'd be seeing the moment we opened the PHB.


I suppose I could use 3.5 as an example. I read Dungeon and Dragon at the time. Visited the WOTC website regularly. I switched from 2E to 3E just in time to have my books made "less worthwhile" by 3.5's release. Lead time on that was very short.

But I am sure its my fault since I waited so long to switch. I was that "minority consumer" that just had to be sacrificed in order to put the revision out.

Plus, when 3E was preparing to be released, the only real detailed info was in Dragon, and even then it was still pretty darn ambiguous, since they were intentionally avoiding giving specific info until the official release.

I remember going to my gaming shop at the time, The Green Dragon in Charleston, SC, and having many discussions with many of my fellow gamers as to what the stuff in Dragon indicated about 3E.

No one had a clear understanding of what 3E was going to be like until the books actually hit the shelves.

So a certain degree of confusion did exist.
 

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Treebore said:
I suppose I could use 3.5 as an example. I read Dungeon and Dragon at the time. Visited the WOTC website regularly. I switched from 2E to 3E just in time to have my books made "less worthwhile" by 3.5's release. Lead time on that was very short.

3.5 was a different ball game when it came to prereleased information.

And I must admit I have a tendency to view the past through rose coloured glasses, so I might think I was more informed about 3e than I actually was.

/M
 

Treebore said:
Plus, when 3E was preparing to be released, the only real detailed info was in Dragon
May I ask when you discovered ENWorld? Because I found Eric Noah's site to be a lot more informative and comprehensive than the Dragon articles. Plus, it was updated every weekday! :D
 

It will be interesting to see how many 3E players jump to 4E and leave 3E behind as an old memory.
So what? This is the attitude that I don’t understand.

You know, most people don’t stake out their preferred edition of the game as some territory to defend and expand. They don’t stand at attention under a banner that says “X Edition: convert or be flamed”. Most people like and play “D&D”. The edition is secondary, if a thought at all.

If and when a 4th edition is published, I fully expect all/most current players to move to it. I expect the next edition to be better – better game mechanics – because it will be designed with another ~10 years worth of game design/play experience. I will examine it and determine if it is indeed better. If I think it is, I will start using it. I will not shed a tear for D&D3, I will not feel a pang of sadness. I will not miss it. I will not go on message boards and start edition wars in honor of it.

I do not pick up a new edition of D&D just because it new. Usually, though, the new thing is better; few things regress. I will pick up a new edition (or game) because I think it is better mechanically.

I started out with Basic/Expert D&D. We played for a year or two with those rules. When we learned of Advanced D&D, we considered it better (mechanically), and so moved to playing with it. When Second Edition came out, I considered it “not better enough” (mechanically), and so continued mostly playing the first edition. (I did play some AD&D2, but under other DMs – I DMed AD&D1.) I eventually fell out of D&D gaming. When D&D3 was released, I checked it out and considered it very good/better (mechanically), and so got back into the hobby. When D&D3 was revised to 3.5, I considered it an improvement (mechanically) and moved to it.

This whole feeling that some have of “us versus them” – you either like the latest version and hate the older versions, or you like the older versions and hate the latest version – is ridiculous. I play D&D. I am currently playing with the latest edition of the rule set, but that doesn’t mean I’ve taken to disliking the older versions.

Newer cars are generally better than older cars. I buy new cars for this betterness. Do I miss my old cars? I may miss the times/experiences I had in/with those old cars, but I don’t miss the car itself. I can have more of the same experiences in my new car as I did with my old. Sure, some of the experiences will be different, because *I’m* different (older, husband, father, job, etc.), but the car does not create the experiences – it is just a vehicle to take me through the experiences. I like that I don’t have to manually roll up my windows, I like that there are airbags in the steering wheel and doors, I like that my car has a bigger interior – I find nothing inherently more pure or fun because of the older technology.

I had some great times in my younger days through the earlier editions of D&D, but not *because* of those editions. I’m having great times now through the current edition of D&D, not because of this edition. I will have great times in my future years through the next edition of D&D, not because of that edition. I move with editions that I feel are better mechanically – the feelings and fun of the game comes directly and only through me and my group.

Quasqueton
 

Treebore said:
Plus, when 3E was preparing to be released, the only real detailed info was in Dragon, and even then it was still pretty darn ambiguous, since they were intentionally avoiding giving specific info until the official release.

Actually, I'm 98% certain that the Conversion Guide was available a couple of months prior to the game being released (I recall Gatekeeper Hobbies in Topeka handing out several dozen copies to all of the AD&D1e and 2e players).
 


Treebore said:
His use of "boycott" is way too strong, but there was a long time where this board was very much in danger of being like the WOTC boards.

:confused: When did this happen? I've been around here since before there were boards and Eric Noah just had his 3E rumor site (one of several, at the time), and I don't recall anything like this. Without going into excruciating detail, I'd be curious to know the time frame involved, so as to do some looking around of my own.

[Mods (and everyone else)- I apologize if this question sounds like it is belaboring Board Wars concepts, that really isn't my intent. I just don't recall any time at which the ENWorld boards were ever overly contentious- not to the extent of the WotC boards, which I also don't view as being as bad as implied in the above comment, in my experience. If you want me to edit/remove this question, please let me know.]

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
I have to agree. You can dislike many things about 3E, but lack of information from WotC about what to expect seems like a strange complaint. Between Dragon, the Web site and Eric Noah, my group pretty much knew exactly what we'd be seeing the moment we opened the PHB.

Definitely. Between Eric's website, Dragon, and all the other rumor sites at the time, myself (and others) already had functional- if crude- working PHBs for 3E well in advance of the actual release. Lack of information really shouldn't have been a problem for anyone interested in finding out what was coming down the pike for 3E.

I couldn't wait to see the daily updates and all the "insider information" from the playtesters that got leaked/released to the websites. :)
 

Rothe said:
I'll have to take your word for it as to ENWorld, as you can see I've not been at ENWorld as long as you, post very frequently nor am I a fee paying member. So I don't get the "your members" comment. I'm also unaware of this great ENWorld boycott, if it was in the last year I missed it.

I used to be a DF member... actually, I still am, I don't go there much anymore.

There was a time when DF was pretty tolerant, and had a little edition wars forum that served as a lightning rod.

Then I show up one day and the EW forum and everything 3e-related is locked up.

I didn't even know what happened. I am told that a particular user who was an active ENWorld member at the time was trolling bad... I'm not going to pass innuendo but given the user, I could believe it. At any rate, if that is, indeed, the source of all the trouble, then the so called "your members" boils down to one ENWorld member, who doesn't even post here that frequently anymore.
 

Shadeydm said:
I see a very striking similarity in 3.xE and 2E. Tons of additional splat books/supplements power creep, kits, prestige classes etc.
1E had its sins as well, as does any game system that stays actively published over a protracted period. Look at how much crunch got shoved into the oWoD before White Wolf hit the reset button.
 

jdrakeh said:
Actually, I'm 98% certain that the Conversion Guide was available a couple of months prior to the game being released (I recall Gatekeeper Hobbies in Topeka handing out several dozen copies to all of the AD&D1e and 2e players).
I think I have (or had) the "Conversion Guide." If memory serves, the "Guide" itself was rather coy on the differences between 2e and 3e (I won't claim the same for Dragon even though I wasn't reading it any more -- I have seen some issues from that time period and everything seems more or less open) -- noting that AC would now be ascending, for example, but saying nothing about the more extensive changes (i.e., feats and skills).

I bought the 3e PHB soon after it came out and was shocked at the extent of the changes. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
 

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