Did the nerds win?

[Gnostic Goblin]

It seems a real shame that to achieve it requires a scape-goat who is still being targetted by a hate mob trying to push him out of the community even after it has been proved the allegations were false in the first place. Seems the bigotry is still there as so few people are humanitarian enough to back down and admit they got it wrong, to the extent they are also chasing other people out of the community for pointing this out to them. I know this because I have been target of it myself after I spoke up about the situation, the evidence does not show what the hate mob want it to show. It’s really sad people are stuck in an echo chamber of ignorance and malice too much to consider they might not be the good guys here. It’s not so bad in this forum, it’s deadly in some of the forums. The same people pride themselves on inclusivity which is a joke considering what they are doing is the opposite to that.

 

[Bohandas]

Being macho died in the 90's

Unfortunately it's has not rested. It's rotted unhallowed corpse has returned to plague the living as the manosphere

EDIT:
As an aside, I've long been of the opinion that the unused true horror potential of stories about the undead lies not in the return of the dead but in the past they're returning from. A corpse is commonplace, the past is horrific

 

[MGibster]

That's - ironically but predictavly -the censors' fault

I still remember the deaths of Roy Fokker and Ben Dixon in Robotech back around 1985/86. It was the only cartoon series I can remember that included deaths. Whether it was a Veritech fighter or a Zentradi battle pod, when one of them took a missile to the face the pilot was almost certainly dead. I've long argued the biggest problem with violence on television for children is that you rarely see the consequences. I'm certainly not arguing the battles need to be as bloody as possible, but you could make age appropriate content showing that people get hurt when you fight. The Venture Bros. did a hilarious parody of the old GI Joe cartoon with their OSI.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I’m Gen Z. I think I can present a perspective unique to my generation. Granted, I grew up Mormon and most of my social group was Mormon, but I don’t know how much that would affect my experience in this matter.

I got into D&D in 2016, when I was a freshman in high school. At first I hid my interest because while I had always been a nerd, D&D was still seen as one of the things only the hardcore, extremely socially awkward nerds got into. When I finally felt comfortable expressing my interest in D&D publicly, most of the people in my social group expressed interest, even many of the popular kids that I knew said they were interested in playing. I was never made fun of by anyone at school for playing the game, and I made some new friends through the hobby. No one called it “satanic,” even the kids that had parents who wouldn’t let them read Harry Potter because it had witchcraft (which was very rare and considered absurd).

Speaking of Harry Potter, everyone knew about it and basically everyone liked it. Most people hadn’t read the books and only watched the movies, but everyone knew their Hogwarts house and what their patronus were. But everyone here probably knows how big Harry Potter was, so that shouldn’t be surprising.

The MCU was the biggest cultural sensation at my high school. Everyone loved it. Everyone kept up on the new movies. The few people who didn’t were met with “you haven’t seen the new Avengers yet! You have to!” People would play the Avengers at parties. I got Avengers Endgame spoiled 5 times the day after it came out. No one I knew read the comics, but everyone saw the movies and you wouldn’t have been judged as being weird for liking the comics.

Basically everyone was familiar with Tolkien’s fantasy races. Everyone knew about Hobbits, Elves, and Dwarves. The Hobbit movies were coming out around this time and a lot of people saw at least the first one. If you asked the average teenager if they knew who “Smaug” was, there’s a good chance they’d say “Benedict Cumberbatch?”

Doctor Who and Star Trek were definitely still considered “nerd” shows and not many people watched them, but everyone knew who Spock and what the Tardis were. No one in my friend group were allowed to watch Game of Thrones, but we were still aware that it was the biggest TV show at the time.

Most people played video games. Different games generally appealed to different groups, but practically everyone played them. Most girls I knew liked Stardew Valley and Animal Crossing, most jocks played Madden and shooters like Call of Duty and Halo, everyone grew up with a Nintendo games and liked Mario Kart and Zelda, etc. Every kid in elementary and middle school liked Coolmathgames.

I think nerd media overall has “won,” in the sense that they’ve gained enough main stream popularity that they’re no longer considered weird. The most popular TV and movie franchises of the past couple decades are nerd media. People outside of the nerd community know what Tolkien’s Dwarves are like and who Groot is.

I grew up in a conservative town in the middle of nowhere with mostly Mormon friends and while I was bullied as a kid, it was never for liking nerd media.

I say the nerds won.

 

[Tonguez]

I’m Gen Z. I think I can present a perspective unique to my generation. Granted, I grew up Mormon and most of my social group was Mormon, but I don’t know how much that would affect my experience in this matter.

I got into D&D when I was a freshman in 2016, when I was a freshman in high school. At first I hid my interest because while I had always been a nerd, D&D was still seen as one of the things only the hardcore, extremely socially awkward nerds got into. When I finally felt comfortable expressing my interest in D&D publicly, most of the people in my social group expressed interest, even many of the popular kids that I knew said they were interested in playing. I was never made fun of by anyone at school for playing the game, and I made some new friends through the hobby. No one called it “satanic,” even the kids that had parents who wouldn’t let them read Harry Potter because it had witchcraft (which was very rare and considered absurd).

Speaking of Harry Potter, everyone knew about it and basically everyone liked it. Most people hadn’t read the books and only watched the movies, but everyone knew their Hogwarts house and what their patronus were. But everyone here probably knows how big Harry Potter was, so that shouldn’t be surprising.

The MCU was the biggest cultural sensation at my high school. Everyone loved it. Everyone kept up on the new movies. The few people who didn’t were met with “you haven’t seen the new Avengers yet! You have to!” People would play the Avengers at parties. I got Avengers Endgame spoiled 5 times the day after it came out. No one I knew read the comics, but everyone saw the movies and you wouldn’t have been judged as being weird for liking the comics.

Basically everyone was familiar with Tolkien’s fantasy races. Everyone knew about Hobbits, Elves, and Dwarves. The Hobbit movies were coming out around this time and a lot of people saw at least the first one. If you asked the average teenager if they knew who “Smaug” was, there’s a good chance they’d say “Benedict Cumberbatch?”

Doctor Who and Star Trek were definitely still considered “nerd” shows and not many people watched them, but everyone knew who Spock and what the Tardis were. No one in my friend group were allowed to watch Game of Thrones, but we were still aware that it was the biggest TV show at the time.

Most people played video games. Different games generally appealed to different groups, but practically everyone played them. Most girls I knew liked Stardew Valley and Animal Crossing, most jocks played Madden and shooters like Call of Duty and Halo, everyone grew up with a Nintendo games and liked Mario Kart and Zelda, etc. Every kid in elementary and middle school liked Coolmathgames.

I think nerd media overall has “won,” in the sense that they’ve gained enough main stream popularity that they’re no longer considered weird. The most popular TV and movie franchises of the past couple decades are nerd media. People outside of the nerd community know what Tolkien’s Dwarves are like and who Groot is.

I grew up in a conservative town in the middle of nowhere with mostly Mormon friends and while I was bullied as a kid, it was never for liking nerd media.

I say the nerds won.

I read an interesting (though biased) observation today about the high number of fantasy authors who are Mormons - Brandon Sanderson, Stephenie Meyer, Shannon Hale, Brandon Mull, David Farland and of course Tracy & Laura Hickman of Dragonlance fame - seems that Mormon conservatism and fantasy are close bedfellows

 

[Jahydin]

I read an interesting (though biased) observation today about the high number of fantasy authors who are Mormons - Brandon Sanderson, Stephenie Meyer, Shannon Hale, Brandon Mull, David Farland and of course Tracy & Laura Hickman of Dragonlance fame - seems that Mormon conservatism and fantasy are close bedfellows

Wow, didn't know that about half of these authors and I was raised LDS!

 

[trappedslider]

I read an interesting (though biased) observation today about the high number of fantasy authors who are Mormons - Brandon Sanderson, Stephenie Meyer, Shannon Hale, Brandon Mull, David Farland and of course Tracy & Laura Hickman of Dragonlance fame - seems that Mormon conservatism and fantasy are close bedfellows

We're really sorry about Meyer.....

 

[Kromanjon]

But my girlfriend is a nerd for KPop, and Hockey. My boss is a nerd for Professional Football. My girlfriend has a friend who I'd consider a 'Fashion Nerd'.

Defining "nerd" is perhaps something I should have done to begin with. I'm really not talking about being very interested in a "thing", I'm more talking about the kind of nerds that got portrayed in media such as Steve Urkel, Revenge of the nerds, and big ang theory. When I grew up Nerd was a more narrow term. Being a nerd for a music genre was just liking music, and being a nerd for hockey was just being normal.

They won - and we won too?

This got an honest to goodness laugh out of me.

What were you hoping to win????

Did you want acceptance? Freedom? Power? Peace?

I think acceptance was the thing I was after. And with acceptance comes some sense of peace I guess.

I think some of the toxicity in nerd culture is right here in this thread where any expression of nerd/geek culture that goes mainstream can't be authentic and has to be appropriative or negative in some other way. It strikes me a lot more that there are still nerds who want to feel victimized despite the pastimes and properties they hold dear being more accepted in the mainstream than ever. I think it's ultimately drawing from the same well that makes Star Wars fandom so toxic because SW has change to much over time (and so have they) that it isn't and can't be the same as it was when they encountered it as kids. They don't "own" Star Wars, never did. The same is true of nerd culture in general. You all don't own it and it being more in the mainstream of media culture isn't punching down at you.

This is really interesting. You might have a real point in that some people just end up hooked on their own victimhood. It's like when I asked in the OP if it might just be my own trauma from bullying that's holding me back from sharing my hobbies with others. At the same time I see a lot of people here who seem to share this feeling with me that, even though the trappings of nerdhood have become mainstream, the judgement can still be there.

Yes, it is. But let us be clear, the rest of us are not under an onus to allow or forgive reproachable behavior. Period.

If someone has problems with their feelings driving them to behave badly, it is that person's responsibility to seek help with their issues.

I don't recall telling anyone to allow or forgive reproachable behavior. I understand that you, as a moderator, has to take a hard stand on not allowing people to behave badly, at the same time I do feel that trying to understand where certain behaviors come from helps the discussion and helps me grow. For instance right now I tried to see where you were coming from even though I felt the aggressive tone of you post was a little uncalled for.

Being macho died in the 90's

Where I work this is far from the truth. I work in a very homogenous workforce where sports, cars and alcohol is the only thing worth discussing.

 

[Retros_x]

Yes, I think nerds won and fan culture is everywhere now. And as a nerd myself I kinda regret it. Turns out I don't like it if everybody in culture is like the comic book clerk from the Simpsons and I loathe a lot of stuff now that came out of nerd mainstream.

 

[Bagpuss]

I don't think you can say nerds won or lost.

I think the maths nerds lost and theatre nerds won I'll tell you why...

We use to have games like Champions, GURPS, and Rolemaster where you needed to make your own spreadsheet or computer program just to get through character creation. Now it's all about narrative control, playbooks and simple systems, you can be playing a character within minutes without ever even reading the rules, let alone learning about VLOOKUP in Excel. I mean where is the fun in that?

Combat can be over in a couple of dice rolls without the joy of of finding the particular book with the right critical table based on weapon, location hit, amount of damage dealt then cross referencing and percentile result, to discover your spleen is ruptured and how many minutes until you die without medical attention.

Now we have trigger warnings, and X cards so that we can protect peoples feelings. We didn't have them back in the day, not because we didn't care. But because well we didn't know what feeling were or experience them, they just weren't something we would even consider, we just had cold hard logic and random tables to determine how we should react.

You can't just say the nerds won, you need to be specific about your nerds.