Did WotC underestimate the Paizo effect on 4E?

[malraux]

Yes, it is indeed. I am not sure you can do the math on the two comments, but it is definitely a possibility.

TBH, I am personally beyond caring. I like 4e, but I also like Paizo's AP's and Golarion. If Paizo has gained enough following to be almost as big, just as big, or even bigger than WotC, that's cool with me, as long as both companies continue to produce products with the current quality. I am the winner here

Yeah, as long as the competion is around who can produce the best game (with whatever that entails), I'm gonna get better quality stuff at reasonable prices.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Very true. The recent Game Master Guide by Paizo for example, is made of win for any fantasy game.

Yes, it is indeed. I am not sure you can do the math on the two comments, but it is definitely a possibility.

TBH, I am personally beyond caring. I like 4e, but I also like Paizo's AP's and Golarion. If Paizo has gained enough following to be almost as big, just as big, or even bigger than WotC, that's cool with me, as long as both companies continue to produce products with the current quality. I am the winner here

 

[mudbunny]

It is amusing to me that store after store can speak up about their sales and that's just unsubstantiated supposition.

And yet last time this topic came up it was resolved that we really don't know if the number is current, or just a rolling total of ever was subscribers.

For me, there is a world of difference between the two situations.

In the first case, for every store where someone says "4E products sell out the minute they get on the shelf" you get other people who say "at my store, 4E stuff sits on the shelf for months". The sample selections in those cases are so small, and we don't actually have any hard numbers of any sort to compare to. All we have are scattered anecdotal reports, and no matter how much people (on both sides of the debate) want it to be true, the plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not data.

The second, with the number of people in the DDI group, we have the numbers, and they are current. With those numbers, we can make calculations and reasonable guesses from those numbers. The accuracy of those numbers, on the other hand, is something that can be (and should be) examined. But we have data that we can look at.

 

[Jack99]

Very true. The recent Game Master Guide by Paizo for example, is made of win for any fantasy game.

Is it that good? If I have all DMG's made for all editions, does it bring something new to the table? It's an honest question, because if the answer is yes, I am definitely off to buy it, but I haven't gotten around to look into reading reviews etc.

 

[Alzrius]

Is it that good? If I have all DMG's made for all editions, does it bring something new to the table? It's an honest question, because if the answer is yes, I am definitely off to buy it, but I haven't gotten around to look into reading reviews etc.

If you have all of the DMG's, then I'm not sure the GMG is going to bring anything to the table (pun intended) that you don't already have.

The bulk of the book is sage advice for people who are new to GMing, or want to brush up on their skills. How to set up good adventures, good campaigns, finding players, dealing with problem players, world construction, NPC archetypes, etc. It's a top-shelf resource for its coverage of the basics; but if you don't need to brush up on the basics, then it's value to you may be lessened.

 

[Jack99]

If you have all of the DMG's, then I'm not sure the GMG is going to bring anything to the table (pun intended) that you don't already have.

The bulk of the book is sage advice for people who are new to GMing, or want to brush up on their skills. How to set up good adventures, good campaigns, finding players, dealing with problem players, world construction, NPC archetypes, etc. It's a top-shelf resource for its coverage of the basics; but if you don't need to brush up on the basics, then it's value to you may be lessened.

Thanks. I just realized that the PDF is only $10, so I have downloaded it.

 

[Perram]

Thanks. I just realized that the PDF is only $10, so I have downloaded it.

Its a really good resource, you'll appreciate it.

Besides the advice (which I recommend a read over, if for no other reason that to get a refresher) it has a lot of really neat tools / tables that make setting up your game much easier.

The NPC collections alone are worth the $10 of the PDF!

 

[The Little Raven]

I'd like to point out some things about that graph. The blog post its from is July 2010, so I assume that the "sales figures" on the graph are from July 2009 to July 2010. The products compared are the Pathfinder core book (which launched in August 2009) and the 4e PHB (which launched in June 2008). Keep in mind that most reports indicate a roleplaying book gets the majority of its sales in the first year, and that year has already passed for the PHB.

 

[Perram]

I'd like to point out some things about that graph. The blog post its from is July 2010, so I assume that the "sales figures" on the graph are from July 2009 to July 2010. The products compared are the Pathfinder core book (which launched in August 2009) and the 4e PHB (which launched in June 2008). Keep in mind that most reports indicate a roleplaying book gets the majority of its sales in the first year, and that year has already passed for the PHB.

I've seen that graph posted quite a few months ago, certainly before July 2010, so I believe that July 2009 might be an accurate date for the sales figures. I don't thing that that pie chart takes into account Pathfinder Sales this year at all, one way or the other.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Thanks. I just realized that the PDF is only $10, so I have downloaded it.

Let us know what you think.

I found it a good read. Too often times these types of books tend to be... boorish, like the author is the only one whose ever role played before. This one I enjoyed with its take on player types (some crossover with those already done by WoTC mind you), advise on speeding up combat, world crafting, and other bits.

The difference for me between a good book and an okay book, is a good book doesn't make me go, "Yeah, seen all this before" because it's well written while a poorly written one makes me go "old hat."

And yeah, here is another place that WoTC could definately learn. $9.99 core books. The core book, the Bestiary, this book, and the Advanced Player's Guide are all $9.99. That's a hell of a deal for it.

And like I said prior, I found a lot of the advise useful to any campaign.