Difficult Player

[jbear]

My experience with problematic players is that when you call them out on what they are doing and calmly let them know how this affects you personally, they come around.

Like Morrus said, you don't want to do this in front of other people, because you will invoke the Pride Demon who will not want to lose face in front of peers.

The vast majority of people don't want to be an ass, even when they are doing so. When they realise what the are doing and how this affects others, they become more aware of their actions, and in most cases make an effort to change.

Let him know what your expectations and hopes are for the game and appeal to his goodwill and good sense to get on board and help you achieve that. If he doesn't want to play a hero, fine. He is not obliged to. But as a player you can require him to find ways, motivations and reasons for his character to be at least cooperative.

Hacking through the roof of a tavern ...? Borderline psychopathic. I know as the owner I'd certainly be sending the boy down to the constabulary to get the guards. And as a DM I would have quickly changed my attention to the other players: 'Okay, while Bork the Half-Ork begins hacking into the sturdy oak roof of the tavern with his axe for reasons that escape you, what do you do? As his fellow companion I'd most certainly have gone into the tavern via, you know, the door, to calmly drink a beer and eat some soup until the barbarian finally arrived via the hole hacked in the roof. But only so I could make some cutting comment about his tardiness and his mental sanity as I calmly wached him wrestling with the troop of heavily armed guards that burst through the door searching for the perpetrator.

As a DM I would have been tempted to have had him hack into the Ladies Bathroom where Old Grandma Higgens was scrubbing away at her wrinkly bits. Having been a widower for over a year now, she might well have welcomed the intrusion as a courting ritual, since she'd always wanted to try it with one of those Half-Orcs. You know what people say about Half-Orcs! But that would be giving him undeserved attention.

If indeed you've been having troubles with him as a DM (I haven't read your other thread), this may well have spilled over into this situation. Talk it out.

 

[UnknownAtThisTime]

While I do agree with the feedback provided so far, and you appear to have an issue you should address out of game, I am slightly concerned about the one specific example you have cited.

To me, it IS plausible that, in a vacuum and depending on the character background, having one's half orc barbarian hack through a tavern roof IS roleplaying. I guess my only point is to make sure you, as DM, are also keeping your objectivity.

 

[SteveC]

I have always believed that you solve problems like this by talking and working things out like an adult. I'd simply ask what's going on... what does he like/not like about the game that's causing him to do these sorts of things.

It may turn out that he has some reasonable suggestions on how to make the game better, or it may be that this just isn't the game for him.

If this guy were a friend of mine, I'd have no problems saying "you're being a jerk, knock it off!"

In game solutions are fine: yes, the guard would logically be called, and he'd likely spend some time in jail... taking him out of the game. Unless you deal with the underlying issues, however, it will just crop up again, so why not just ask what's going on?

 

[Almacov]

When the city guard captain attempted to arrest him for disturbing the peace and vandalism he resisted arrest and tried to kill him. When that failed and he wound up in a jail cell, he said I'm not done with that guard yet. I will kill him. What is the best way to deal with this player?

I don't know about the best way to deal with this player, but if upon leaving jail his character tried to kill that guard again after I'd explained to the player my position on his behaviour, I'd probably have the city hate him and its citizens attack like a mob of white blood cells. Seems realistic enough. His character probably dies, and the city (along with some members of the party, too) likely spits on his corpse before it's thrown to the dogs.

If the party risks their hide to save his neck from the mob, then perhaps he'll grow some perspective. If not, eventually the party will probably let him die some other way.

In short, I'd let it play out fairly realistically, and I wouldn't pull punches.

A character in my game slinked off on his own while the group was investigating a manor, murdered an innocent guy in cold blood, and proceeded to light the place on fire to cover his tracks - risking the rest of the party's lives in several ways as a result.
His character was dead by the end of the session, the rest of the party was satisfied, and he began to learn what flies and what doesn't.

Maybe I... lacked empathy there? I don't regret the way it played out in my game though.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

To me, it IS plausible that, in a vacuum and depending on the character background, having one's half orc barbarian hack through a tavern roof IS roleplaying.

In the old days, a character like that would have been called "chaotic stupid". They don't belong in D&D outside of humorous campaigns. I mean, groups can play any way they like, but that behavior violates pretty much every precept of roleplaying in a group.

 

[moxcamel]

While I do agree with the feedback provided so far, and you appear to have an issue you should address out of game, I am slightly concerned about the one specific example you have cited.

To me, it IS plausible that, in a vacuum and depending on the character background, having one's half orc barbarian hack through a tavern roof IS roleplaying. I guess my only point is to make sure you, as DM, are also keeping your objectivity.

This is a great point to consider...is it possible that the player is doing a little LARPing at the table and in-game because he's not a very good role-player, and it's just his vision of how a half orc would behave? Your problem might just be an opportunity to encourage the player to role-play in a somewhat less disruptive manner.

But I'll throw my hat in to the "take this discussion one-on-one, away from the table" crowd. Whatever his reasons, whatever his motivations, it seems that 4 in 5 players like the game as presented. Be willing to be flexible enough to listen to his suggestions about what would make the game more fun for him, but ultimately he needs to respect the campaign that you are running. Make a reasonable attempt to address his concerns, but there's nothing wrong with utlimately suggesting that maybe this campaign just doesn't suit his style of play and that he should think about dropping out.

 

[OnlineDM]

On the "go through the roof" question, I personally think that can be reasonable in certain circumstances. I think this player has made it clear that he wants hack-and-slash, grab the loot, but this campaign involves more role playing than that - that's the problem I see.

Going through the roof can be a creative solution. I recently ran a game where the party was heading down to a basement lair beneath a shop via a stairway that ran down from a trap door in the shop floor. The stairway was a bottleneck for the PCs, so one player said, "Can I make a Dungeoneering check to see if there's a weak spot in the floor where I might be able to hack through, other than the trap door?" Sure! He rolled well on Dungeoneering, and I had him notice some weak boards. It took one turn to make the check, walk over to the weak spot and pull the rug away from it. It took the next turn to actually create a hole. THEN he could start shooting arrows down at the bad guys.

I'm glad I said yes in this situation. Sure, it wasn't the most efficient way to handle things, but who cares? It was cool, and I wanted to reward that.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

On the "go through the roof" question, I personally think that can be reasonable in certain circumstances.

I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that the character in question had no particular reason to go through the roof, and that doing so was the equivalent of opening your car door too take out a pedestrian as you drive by. If that is not the case, the OP should tell help us out by giving more details.

 

[OnlineDM]

Sure - it's very possible that this was NOT one of those reasonable circumstances. I just didn't want everyone to assume that a player who wants to hack a hole in a roof or floor is a jerk. It can be lots of fun in the right situation!

 

[SeamusRedfern]

I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that the character in question had no particular reason to go through the roof, and that doing so was the equivalent of opening your car door too take out a pedestrian as you drive by. If that is not the case, the OP should tell help us out by giving more details.

Not incorrectly assumed. He was on a roof 2 stories up and had rope in his backpack and had already succeeded his Athletics check to get up on the roof from the room he was staying in. He hacked through the roof because he didn't want to fail his Athletics check and take 2d10 damage. Which is what he said when I asked if he was going to either use the rope or attempt to climb back into the room from the roof.