Raven Crowking
First Post
Another easy solution is to say, "Based on your role-playing, I will tell you when you can roll Diplomacy."
Diplomacy: A game-wrecker?
- Thread starter DM-Frost
- Start date
re
If you want them to interact with your NPCs, then interact with them. Talk to them like a magic item salesman would.
If they say, "I want to buy a magic item".
Say "Ok. You want to do that now?"
Player, "Yes".
You say, "You walk around town. You find Morum's Magic Emporium. It's a simple looking shop with a sign hanging over it with gold lettering."
Player, "Ok. I go in."
You, "You enter. There are no items on the shelves. It looks bare. But you see a few burly guards standing near a door. They perk up and watch you closely as soon as you come in. A gnome is sitting behind a large wooden desk. He looks up when you come in, 'Good afternoon, sir. What brings you to my fine establishment?"
Player, "I'm looking for a magic item."
You, "And what might you be looking for? I have plenty if you have plenty of coin. Come, sit down, let us talk."
If you as a DM take the time to develop a city including NPCs and places, then don't give your players a chance to refuse to talk. Make it interesting for them. Play up your NPCs and the places in the city. Make it fun for them to interact a bit and wander about your city. If they tell you they want to do something in particular, then make a roleplaying encounter of it and get them talking. You the DM have to get the ball rolling, not the player. The player need only tell you what they want to do and it is up to you to make the encounter interesting by interacting with them.
When it finally comes time where they would make a diplomacy check, if they have done enough you say "You succeeded" or maybe only give them a bonus.
As a DM you set the tone and standard for how the players play the game. They don't dicate to you how the game should be played. If you have taken the time to develop a city and feel like playing the NPCs in it, then start every interaction off with a roleplaying scenario. Get used to what your players like to do when in the city and roleplay accordingly.
As a DM I sometimes let my players do as your players do, make a check or sell a magic item quick if they've been doing it for a while. But I also like to build relationships in the world and I do just as I advised above. I talk to my players in character when they want to do something in the city and I give them an NPC with a personality to interact with. If you play the NPC well, most players will have fun interacting with them. It'll get them into the story more.
But you don't have to lay down the law and be a jerk to get your players to interact. Just give them no choice by becoming the NPC they are interacting with, just as you would not give them a choice when they have to fight a combat. But instead of fighting, they have to interact with your NPC that you are now playing the role of.
If you want them to interact with your NPCs, then interact with them. Talk to them like a magic item salesman would.
If they say, "I want to buy a magic item".
Say "Ok. You want to do that now?"
Player, "Yes".
You say, "You walk around town. You find Morum's Magic Emporium. It's a simple looking shop with a sign hanging over it with gold lettering."
Player, "Ok. I go in."
You, "You enter. There are no items on the shelves. It looks bare. But you see a few burly guards standing near a door. They perk up and watch you closely as soon as you come in. A gnome is sitting behind a large wooden desk. He looks up when you come in, 'Good afternoon, sir. What brings you to my fine establishment?"
Player, "I'm looking for a magic item."
You, "And what might you be looking for? I have plenty if you have plenty of coin. Come, sit down, let us talk."
If you as a DM take the time to develop a city including NPCs and places, then don't give your players a chance to refuse to talk. Make it interesting for them. Play up your NPCs and the places in the city. Make it fun for them to interact a bit and wander about your city. If they tell you they want to do something in particular, then make a roleplaying encounter of it and get them talking. You the DM have to get the ball rolling, not the player. The player need only tell you what they want to do and it is up to you to make the encounter interesting by interacting with them.
When it finally comes time where they would make a diplomacy check, if they have done enough you say "You succeeded" or maybe only give them a bonus.
As a DM you set the tone and standard for how the players play the game. They don't dicate to you how the game should be played. If you have taken the time to develop a city and feel like playing the NPCs in it, then start every interaction off with a roleplaying scenario. Get used to what your players like to do when in the city and roleplay accordingly.
As a DM I sometimes let my players do as your players do, make a check or sell a magic item quick if they've been doing it for a while. But I also like to build relationships in the world and I do just as I advised above. I talk to my players in character when they want to do something in the city and I give them an NPC with a personality to interact with. If you play the NPC well, most players will have fun interacting with them. It'll get them into the story more.
But you don't have to lay down the law and be a jerk to get your players to interact. Just give them no choice by becoming the NPC they are interacting with, just as you would not give them a choice when they have to fight a combat. But instead of fighting, they have to interact with your NPC that you are now playing the role of.
Starbuck_II
Explorer
The PHB says that NPCs can't. So that is the reason so yeah.
James Jacobs
Adventurer
The way that synergy bonuses stacked up in 3.5 for Diplomacy was a HUGE reason why we got rid of synergy bonuses in Pathfinder, honestly; having a 2nd level character get close to a +20 on Diplomacy was a bit... over the top.
In any case, the trick with Diplomacy is to not let the PCs do too much with it. The advice to have the GM tell the PCs when they get to roll Diplomacy is good advice too, since that allows the GM to make the call when and if there's a chance of Diplomacy working. Once combat begins, Diplomacy is pretty much useless. And it's worth remembering that a single check, no matter HOW good, cannot increase a creature's attitude more than 2 steps; the most you can alter a hostile creature's attitude with Diplomacy with a single check is to Indifferent. The skill also takes a while to use; cracking down on the 1 minute use time is a good way to go.
Faced with the OP's specific situation, where the PCs insist on "Diplomacy check" at the start of every single NPC encounter... I'd say, "Prove it." AKA: Make the PCs roleplay their attempt at Diplomacy. Make sure they have a minute (or more) of actual roleplay in before you give them the chance to make that check, and then modify it depending on how well they roleplay the attempt. If the PCs are making Diplomacy checks because they honestly like roleplaying, this'll make them even happier and will give you as the GM a LOT more time to roleplay. If they're making Diplomacy checks simply because they're fishing for bonuses, though, I wouldn't grant any bonuses for the 1-minute roleplay requirement. If the PCs do this with every NPC, they should start to realize that asking for a Diplomacy check all the time might be overdoing it.
In any case, the trick with Diplomacy is to not let the PCs do too much with it. The advice to have the GM tell the PCs when they get to roll Diplomacy is good advice too, since that allows the GM to make the call when and if there's a chance of Diplomacy working. Once combat begins, Diplomacy is pretty much useless. And it's worth remembering that a single check, no matter HOW good, cannot increase a creature's attitude more than 2 steps; the most you can alter a hostile creature's attitude with Diplomacy with a single check is to Indifferent. The skill also takes a while to use; cracking down on the 1 minute use time is a good way to go.
Faced with the OP's specific situation, where the PCs insist on "Diplomacy check" at the start of every single NPC encounter... I'd say, "Prove it." AKA: Make the PCs roleplay their attempt at Diplomacy. Make sure they have a minute (or more) of actual roleplay in before you give them the chance to make that check, and then modify it depending on how well they roleplay the attempt. If the PCs are making Diplomacy checks because they honestly like roleplaying, this'll make them even happier and will give you as the GM a LOT more time to roleplay. If they're making Diplomacy checks simply because they're fishing for bonuses, though, I wouldn't grant any bonuses for the 1-minute roleplay requirement. If the PCs do this with every NPC, they should start to realize that asking for a Diplomacy check all the time might be overdoing it.
Raven Crowking
First Post
Sorry.....are you agreeing with me that it is different than swinging a sword, or are you disagreeing? I'm not sure what inflection you were intending to imply there.
RC
Mark Chance
Boingy! Boingy!
Couple of other points:
1. Just because you improve someone's attitude today doesn't mean it'll be that way tomorrow.
2. Institute the Bad/Good Hair Day check. Roll a red d6 and a white d6. Apply the formula (red d6 - white d6). The difference, positive or negative, is the adjustment to Diplomacy DCs for that particular NPC.
1. Just because you improve someone's attitude today doesn't mean it'll be that way tomorrow.
2. Institute the Bad/Good Hair Day check. Roll a red d6 and a white d6. Apply the formula (red d6 - white d6). The difference, positive or negative, is the adjustment to Diplomacy DCs for that particular NPC.
jaerdaph
#UkraineStrong
I like to use the old standard of publicly awarding extra XP for good roleplaying. The others soon catch on.
I like this too.
I like this too.
