Dire Tigers CR is WRONG.....

[LokiDR]

You sick, sick, sick little man!!!

Of course not, and UK's system does not promise nor contain such math. It makes no claim of the sort. That's where the "art of DMing" comes in. However, can you deny that bad eyeballing could adversely affect a player's enjoyment of the game?

I not little, I'm bulk-impared

I think bad challenges are about on par with bad traps. Bad plots are worse though. I suppose anything that lets my DM focus on that is useful.

 

[AuraSeer]

Also, if you suck at eyeballing, I can easily see a system like this helping. Why? Simple. Because it doesn't make you eyeball that much.

Sure it does! You have to do the same judgement calls. Even if they're called situational modifiers, they're exactly the same as the gut-feeling EL mods that DMs have always had to apply.

Another way to put it: the eyeballed modifiers are still the most significant aspect of the comparison. The rest of the "new system" doesn't mean anything. It makes you feel good because of all the pretty numbers, but it's nothing more than window dressing.

(Why isn't this in House Rules yet?)

 

[kreynolds]

Sure it does! You have to do the same judgement calls. Even if they're called situational modifiers, they're exactly the same as the gut-feeling EL mods that DMs have always had to apply.

I hardly think that's a fair statement, and nobody said you wouldn't have to account for situational modifiers. You pointed out only one area where the system does not (currently, not permanently) provide help, and that's situational modifiers. That's it. That's hardly justification for saying it's just as flawed as the core rules. It seems to cover all the other areas pretty well, and eventually, it will even make a brave attempt to cover this area (where the DMG completely failed).

(Why isn't this in House Rules yet?)

Because the original question was a legitimate rules question, and there are no rules in the core rules to truly explain the funky behavior of CR and EL.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey kreynolds mate!

Quite frankly, because some people can't eyeball CR, or even EL, worth a darn. If you look at the DMG and UK's system as guidebooks to teach CR and EL, I think UK's is far more comprehensive, as not only does it arm you with the basic understanding of CR and EL, it arms you with precision, rather than "Oh, I guess this number will do". Just my opinion though.

I appreciate the love mate!

 

[kreynolds]

I appreciate the love mate!

Oh, you're not off the hook. I have yet to be convinced that this...

Except where the ability is time based, as with Fast Healing/Regeneration and Spell-like Abilities at will.

...is even justified.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello again mate!

I managed to grab it as well. Why don't you just update the attatchment in the thread?

Primarily because I was new to the whole posting attachments scene and at the time wasn't sure if that was possible (I seem to recall it wouldn't allow me to add a second attachment to the initial post) hence the reason I started a new thread for the Version 3 (my intentions were to make things easier by having it in the first post of a thread) which was downloaded by quite a few people however the discussion continued in the original thread, so the other thread descended while the initial one remained.

Eventually even Version 3 was superceded but there are few things I am have not yet fully implemented* so there is no point volunteering a Version 4 until those are all finalised.

*Situational Common Denominators; the entire Monster Manual roster of CRs reevaluated and a revision of fractional CRs.

Also there are a few other issues I should work on, notably ease of use and perhaps one or two further tweaks to the layout.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

Oh, you're not off the hook.

...and I thought your love was unconditional.

I have yet to be convinced that this...

...is even justified.

Possibly.

The annoyance is that they are probably worthy of special note at lower levels, rather than at higher levels where magical parallels are easier to come by.

Incidently I would also add 'Create Spawn' to the list of abilities that affect ECL differently...in all probability.

 

[kreynolds]

...and I thought your love was unconditional.

Earned, baby! Only earned!

Possibly.

The annoyance is that they are probably worthy of special note at lower levels, rather than at higher levels where magical parallels are easier to come by.

Hmm....ya' know, I actually get that. OK. Ya' earned some more.

Incidently I would also add 'Create Spawn' to the list of abilities that affect ECL differently...in all probability.

Oh yeah. That's like having a Leadership Soda Machine wherever ya' go (the victims being the coins for the final product, of course).

 

[Hypersmurf]

(Why isn't this in House Rules yet?)

You know, I was wondering the same thing?

But every time I went to say something, I stopped myself with "Well, nobody's forcing you to read it..."

I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking it, though

Because the original question was a legitimate rules question, and there are no rules in the core rules to truly explain the funky behavior of CR and EL.

That's not really an excuse, though - a link to a thread in House Rules would better reflect the content of the last four pages.

-Hyp.

 

[kreynolds]

That's not really an excuse, though - a link to a thread in House Rules would better reflect the content of the last four pages.

I didn't offer an excuse. I offered an explanation. Anyway, the content of the last four pages seems to address the flaw in the rules, doesn't it? Well, some of it.