Dire Tigers CR is WRONG.....

[Anubis]

Being 'too hard' isn't relavent. UK is trying to communicate information; as such he is *obligated* to assume fault for any communication gaffs. If he decides he is not the problem, than he can't supply the solution, and stagnates.

The thing is it ISN'T his problem. There are always people who just don't understand. Not all people operate at the same level. Some people would find the core rules hard to understand even. Some people might find Super Mario Bros. to be a hard game. These are not problems with the system, it's problems on the user's end. Most people who look at UK's system understand it pretty well. I see very few people having a tough time, and most of them went in with closed minds anyway, which assured a lack of understanding.

I'm not being mean, I'm being a realist. Some people just can't grasp advanced concepts. Just like I can't grasp calculus. It don't mean calculus is poorly designed, it means I am just not able to understand.

I think the fault here lies with the user, because everything in the PDF is pretty crystal clear.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Coredump mate!

Ah, but you have a logic flaw here. You state that it is more 'accurate', and then claim that it is therefore 'better'. I have not reached an opinion yet, but my most likely complaint is that it is unnecessarily accurate.

Something I probably touched on previously was that the CR system is also there to facilitate the creation and modification of servants by deities.

Essentially its really only as accurate as it needs to be once you introduce all the components.

If you are trying to find out how many inches something is, do you need a tool that is accurate for millimeters?
ie. Assuming that any EL based on just CR will have to adjusted +/-1 due to specific party make-up (not mentioning situational modifiers). Then how important is it to be *exactly* accurate?

I see the point you are trying to make, but for those people who don't want to tinker with; advance or create their own creatures they are never really going to need the CR system (only the EL portion). So its really a moot point since all the 'hard work' will be done for you.

Better? sure, but what benefit for what 'difficulty'. (UK, I realize that theoretically, there will be no 'difficulty'; just making a point.)
Plus, even considering a list from WotC and a list from UK; how many creatures will be significantly different EL?

There are a number of flaws in WotC's representation of EL that need to be addressed (see below). Before doing that any such comparitives are simply coincidental.

Also realize, that many people do not play Epic, where the 'problems' with WotC CR are amplified.

Indeed. At non-epic levels* you can 'get away with' using the official rules.

*More likely under 16th or so.

Okay, but does it matter? From what I can tell, WotC is saying that the Pit Fiend is CR 20, therefore EL 20. Your method says CR 30, which still translates to an EL of 20. So what is the difference?

The difference is that under WotCs method a 20th-level character is CR 20/EL 20 and I disagree with the latter half of that appraisal.

They still advocate that a single 24th-level character is a difficult (50/50) challenge for a party of 4-5 20th-level characters. Or that a single 20th-level character is a difficult challenge for a party of 16th-level characters. This just simply isn't the case.

As my system shows a single difficult challenge for a party of 4-5 characters is going to be a Challenge Rating of approx. double the average party level. All feedback and playtesting bears this out!

 

[Coredump]

If anyone was reading along with this thread, my response is going into the similar thread in House Rules. UK did not want to risk creating bad feelings by discussing this topic further in the Rules section.

Hope to see you there