Dire Tigers CR is WRONG.....


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Forget Spring Attack, and throw the monk!

I don't think the CR system is worthless, but some monsters have "off" CRs, especially brute monsters like ogres, black bears and the legendary tiger (too low), fiends (too high), and dragons (too low).
 

LGodamus said:
one single dire tiger freakin TPKed our entire 6th lvl party....ane we were rolling well, and the tiger was only rolling average. I know CRs are not a perfect science , but there werent any anomalies in the rolls and the tactics of the party were fine, but the tiger mopped the floor with us...

I don't know, CR of 2 higher than the average party level is asking for trouble anyway.

Improved Grab creatures can be nasty, but they're dead meat if you have rogues in your group.
 

Re: Re: Dire Tigers CR is WRONG.....

Numion said:


I don't know, CR of 2 higher than the average party level is asking for trouble anyway.

Improved Grab creatures can be nasty, but they're dead meat if you have rogues in your group.

Unless they Improved Grab the rogue...

Dire Tigers are definitely bad news to a 6th level party, although that's not unreasonable for CR 8. I have a feeling that in close combat it would do more damage to 8th level parties than is warranted by an equal EL encounter, so it probably is underated.

And think: an 8th level Druid at home can have one as a friend...:eek:
 

In my experience some CRs are perfectly alright, but only against higher level opponents. So when that creature is used against a party of equal APL as CR of the creature, the creature wins easily. On the other hand, when using two such creatures against a party of APL of CR+2 the numbers are reasonable. The ogre is a prime example. One ogre against 6 1st lvl PCs is going to have an easy fight. Two ogres against 6 4th lvl PCs are going to be killed with an approximate expenditure of 25% resources.

In any event, when designing encounters CR is a real useful tool. It assumes an average party though with standard treasure. If you don't have a standard party and/or standard treasure then it starts failing at the higher end. There are just situations where a DM has to be really alert:
* 1 creatures of a higher CR then the party.
* Environment

That is not to say there are some monsters that have wrong CRs. Earth elementals and vermin spring to mind ;)
 


Hypersmurf said:
Ha! Fear my ranged melee attack!
Haha! Okok, I fixed the verbiage: ranged attacks or magic from afar, yar!
Intrope said:
Ranged Melee Attack == Monk w/Spring Attack :D
If dire tigers didn't have 40' base speed and 10' reach, I would agree! As it is, a 6th level monk (50' speed) isn't quite fast enough to pull it off, at least not without haste or expeditious retreat...
 
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Heh. Take a look at Colossal Monstrous Scorpions (vermin) too, and compare that to other CR 11s (in actual fights it doesn't do all that great against creatures with DR)

416 hps
2 claws +49, sting +44
Fort +36, Ref +21, Wil +21
Poison (from sting): 2d8 str and DC 54(!)

Also has improved grab and squeeze, if that weren't enough.

No, CRs are not exactly even. Or at least some things were not MEANT to be fought in brute melee combat.
 
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Gyr said:

No, CRs are not exactly even. Or at least some things were not MEANT to be fought in brute melee combat.

Or maybe they also rate animal/vermin a little differently because they could be 'defeated' other ways? A Dire Tiger might be placated by letting it have one of the party's horses, perhaps.

It's also to be said that Dire Tigers aren't all that stealthy; at best, they have a Hide +4: not difficult for most partys to see from a ways off.
 

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