Disappointed in 3.5 books

[Enceladus]

And nobody in my games takes ranks in cross-class skills unless they have to to meet some PrC requirement. They are just wasted skill points when you hardly get any per level.

Just a bunch of min-maxing hack-n-slashers eh?

I would disagree that they're a waste.

I recieved the new books yesterday, I'm far from disappointed, quite happy actually.

Delighted really.

Glad too, I really needed a new set.

 

[Belphanior]

Ah, yes. When the discussion is going against you, throw with mud.
Yes Iron Chef, I am a hack&slasher. That is why my PC got married to another PC and took 8 ranks into Profession: (mommy) when she got pregnant and gave birth to her baby daughter. Just so I could slaughter more orcs.

One more thing before I start the quote-refute cycle again: I love the way you ignore a lot of my arguments and attempt to divert attention from the issues you can't handle. Lovely job.

The role of a cleric is to champion his faith (by adventuring or performing great deeds/miracles), spread his god's word, tend to the needs of the faithful (adventuring companions or whoever) and to convert others, or barring the possibility of conversion, to destroy infidels, heretics and blasphemers.

If that is what their god expects of them, sure. I'm not sure how this requires you to be an expert at sense motive though. Aren't those miracles that automatically prevent people from lying in the first place a lot more effective?

Clerics are not just guys in heavy armor casting spells grabbing treasure. They have a responsibility to a higher power, and to a whole heirarchy of church officials. Most clerics belong to a religion, right, and if you have a religion, you have to have somebody running this religion, or nothing gets done and it falls apart. I swear, you are just being contrary, or you're simply not grasping the concept of what a cleric is, and trying to say that only Christian priests should be insightful, while their D&D counterparts should be mace-wielding idiots.

You either did not understand me, or are just trying to put words in my mouth. Thanks for the mud though, I hadn't had enough of that particular commodity yet.

Do the gods want dummies representing them?

Relevance? So people who do not have ranks in sense motive are dummies? Strange criteria you got there.

A cleric who can't sense what is the right course of action is going to embarrass his deity/temple quick. Helping those in need means more than whacking some orc over the head. It means helping the faithful, whether through undertaking a quest (adventure or finding a lost sheep) or helping sort out their personal problems in a confessional setting.

Sense motive does not tell you the right course of action, however, so this entire bit falls to pieces.
Clerics have Augury and such though. Hmmm, Augury, Discern Lies, Find Traps... Say, do you suppose the cleric is a spell based class instead of a skill based one?

If a cleric is part of a temple (and most are), then they must have some need to sense the motives of others, not just of their faithful, but also of their brethren: Church heirarchies are notorious hotbeds of politics. The high priest could be sending you on a suicide mission under a false pretext, after all. Your rival for the position of bishop could be plotting against you and only pretending he is dropping his candidacy.

Actually, Diplomacy is the better skill to function in a hierarchy. Sense motive does not hurt, true, but it is not required for the clerics who are part of a hierarchy (and not all are, as your own quote proves).

And nobody in my games takes ranks in cross-class skills unless they have to to meet some PrC requirement. They are just wasted skill points when you hardly get any per level.

And here I was thinking that I was supposed to be the hack&slasher...
I have gnome cleric of Fharlanhg who has taken several ranks in Open Locks, btw. A waste of skill point from a purely gamist point of view, but it fit the concept. Constructing your character with sub-optimal, but in-character reasons in mind is also a form of roleplaying. So very sad you seem to be unfamiliar with that.

 

[drnuncheon]

Why divine agents would be great at piercing lies is beyond me. I'd sooner see it on the fighter's skill list, to counter the ability to feint in combat.

As an aside, they've already given the fighter a big boost in this area by letting folks add their BAB to the opposed roll to resist a feint.

J

 

[hong]

As an aside, they've already given the fighter a big boost in this area by letting folks add their BAB to the opposed roll to resist a feint.

WHAT?


Hong "heavens to Betsy!" Ooi

 

[Fenes 2]

As an aside, they've already given the fighter a big boost in this area by letting folks add their BAB to the opposed roll to resist a feint.

J

<smacks head>

Now that is something I ask myself why I did not came up with it before.

<opens house rule folder>

 

[Enceladus]

Try to knock a dwarf down. I dare ye! I double DOG dare ye!!

 

[hong]

<smacks head>

Now that is something I ask myself why I did not came up with it before.

<opens house rule folder>

It was something I actually suggested back in the dim dark ages of the opening years of the 21st century, when 3E was still young. But as it turned out, few people ever bothered with feinting in combat anyway, so it became a moot point.

 

[Tom Cashel]

Chef, the things you say about Sorcerors and their abilities sound cool. You can still make a great character who possesses those skills, by the rules. Costs a few extra skill points, but character is more important than maximum advantage, right?

There's no need to hardwire it into the game. Giving Sorcerors all CHA-based skills is just too powerful in comparison to other classes.

It's perfectly valid for someone to be displeased with a purchase made. It's highly invalid to allow for no room for someone to have such an opinion.

I allow room...but in this case you have a consumer who got so wrapped up in the hype that he pre-ordered the books sight unseen! ...And now he complains? Guess what, Chef...that big 'ol discount was your gimme for dissatisfaction.

Helpful hint: Once the books are on sale, you can go look through them at the FLGS or local Borders. I'm fairly certain the 20-30% online discount will still be valid when you get home.

Oh, wait...you had to have them immediately? Without knowing anything about them besides what you'd heard online? Tough luck, then.

 

[Henry]

Y'KNOW,

Name-calling doesn't help win an argument.

Let's please respect one another. There's plenty of ways to play this game, and making assumptions about our fellow gamers doesn't get us very far.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I think Iron_Chef may need some more time with the rules ... there's a huge amount of changes. Looking over the spells takes hours, for instance.

You can put a virus into a non-Exe file ... even into pictures.