D&D General Discuss: Combat as War in D&D

[FrogReaver]

If the DM adopted a "RPGs as war" approach, sure. The toughest boss in the campaign would just burn down the tavern the 1st level PCs were sleeping on night 1 of the campaign.

I don't think that would represent a combat as war style action. Maybe the night after their first successful adventure though

But the NPC's aren't omniscient. The big bad does not realize those meddling kids are going to uber powerful heroes who will be his biggest threat in the near future, and he has lots of other, more pressing things to worry about.

NPC's don't have to be omniscient. They can get information about the PC's the same ways the PC's do about them. One of the oldest strategies in the book would be to turn the promising young adventurer into your ally and if they don't then ensure they cannot oppose you. This doesn't have to happen instantly. Things like this don't have to happen instantly, and that's why I was careful to use the word 'eventually'

Actual war tells us that commanders make flawed decisions all the time (Hitler invading Russia), and bad luck can mitigate even the best decisions (the US aircraft carriers being away from Pearl Harbor at the time of the attack). The DM can usually set up the stage in a plausible way so that the PCs have a reasonable chance of success, even if the enemies within that scenario are fighting to the very best of their abilities.

Bringing up countries into a game that's about a team of individuals seems a little off. I've seen this done a few times and this is just the latest example - but it's not at all informative.

Also, if the DM is looking to set things up in a plausible way so that the PCs have a reasonable chance of success then he's actively stacking the deck against team monster. From a combat as war perspective that idea seems strange.

 

[FrogReaver]

The “Combat as Sport vs. Combat as War” dichotomy is drivel on par with GNS theory.

I hate GNS as much as the next, but I don't see that same kind of thing in Combat as Sport and Combat as War dichotomy. In a broad stroke Combat as War and Combat as Sport define 2 different ways of approaching the game that otherwise isn't easy to reference.

 

[Imaculata]

I'm noticing that a few posters are presuming that if the enemy treated combat as war, the pc's would surely be crushed. But to me, that does not logically follow.

Villains act upon that which they know, but there are a great many things they don't know. They will first need to acquire information, and they may act on false information.

Plus, in a D&D campaign the pc's are the heroes. As such, the plot will favor them in many ways in order to beat the odds. For example, they will form alliances with powerful allies and gather resources to aid them in their battle. It is up to the DM to provide these elements to give the players a fair shot.

The last few sessions, my players have often shielded themselves from scrying, or deliberately provided false information to their enemy. Meanwhile the enemy has bribed one of their allies to change sides. It is a cat and mouse game that ultimately still favors the heroes.

 

[FrogReaver]

Okay, I thought your this referred to the PCs being crushed.

Yes. I'm saying that the existence of a TPK in situations where the enemy doesn't operate under Combat as War doesn't invalidate the OP claim, because the claim isn't that this is the only way a TPK can happen.

 

[FrogReaver]

I'm noticing that a few posters are presuming that if the enemy treated combat as war, the pc's would surely be crushed. But to me, that does not logically follow.

Villains act upon that which they know, but there are a great many things they don't know. Plus, in a D&D campaign the pc's are the heroes. As such, the plot will favor them in many ways in order to beat the odds. For example, they will form alliances with powerful allies and gather resources to aid them in their battle. It is up to the DM to provide these elements to give the players a fair shot.

In combat as War there is no 'fair shot'.

 

[Imaculata]

In combat as War there is no 'fair shot'.

I reject that notion. War describes merely the tactics used by the opposing party, not the difficulty of the campaign, nor the fairness of encounters.

 

[Krachek]

DnD is at base a cooperative game.
It´s possible to pretend facing real challenge like in a PvP environment but it is fake.
The structure of the game, the different tools and role PC and DM have just make a real war an illusion.

 

[FrogReaver]

I reject that notion. War describes merely the tactics used by the opposing party, not the difficulty of the campaign, nor the fairness of encounters.

The tactics employed in combat as war are inherently about making the encounter unfair.

 

[ninjayeti]

Claim: If the enemies ever adopted a true combat as war mindset then the PC's would eventually be crushed.

Care to explain your reasoning here?

I see you rebutting lots of counterarguments, but I just don't understand your affirmative case.

 

[Vaalingrade]

The tactics employed in combat as war are inherently about making the encounter unfair.

So... couldn't the DM just cheat then?