CapnZapp
Legend
This is unfortunately a recurring issue.
Each time you wish to create a house rule to skip some pesky restriction, whether in advance or on the fly, you're bound to trample right over a feat or eleventyseven.
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Pathfinder 2E Discussing a new PF2 healing paradigm
Each time you wish to create a house rule to skip some pesky restriction, whether in advance or on the fly, you're bound to trample right over a feat or eleventyseven.
️Filthy Lucre
Adventurer
I don't understand. PF2e is literally awash with out-of-combat healing. Our parties fighter heals the entire group to pretty much full after each combat encounter without magic.
2nd Continual Recovery
3rd Ward Medic
Our fighter can heal 2 people at once every 10 minutes for 2d8 + 10.
Also simulationism/3.5 era was the GOAT don't @ me.
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CapnZapp
Legend
Hint: Don't just read the very first sentence next time, keep reading the immediately following paragraph as well. It is there for one reason only: to explain that first sentence.
Filthy Lucre
Adventurer
Nah, I can tell when a post is just complaining for the sake of complaining/creating a problem for the sake of complaining.Hint: Don't just read the very first sentence next time, keep reading the immediately following paragraph as well. It is there for one reason only: to explain that first sentence.
You're proposing all these additional rules/concepts that are completely unnecessary... as I have demonstrated above.
CapnZapp
Legend
You have "demonstrated" nothing. Except to prove you didn't read my original post longer than the quoted passage. Good bye.
Philip Benz
A Dragontooth Grognard
Earlier this week I ran session 46 of a homebrewed PF2 campaign, and I sincerely think that healing works fine out of the box.
Sure, sometimes I handwave it, instead of requiring rolls. I don't want to waste table time figuring out if healing is going to take 10, 30, 50 minutes or whatever. My players have the system down pat, so very often I can simply take a 5-minute pit stop break and come back and they'll say "we healed everyone to full in "x" minutes, and I'll mark the elapsed time at the bottom of my adventure log sheet.
For me, elapsed time is a sort of count down to specific plot-linked events. Like the undead come out at dusk, or some dangerous foe is set to arrive at a given time, or some plot event will happen at a given time unless the PCs can stop it. Sure, sometimes the elapsed time clock is irrelevant, and the PCs can effectively take whatever amount of time they want. But very often I have an idea of what will happen sooner or later penned into my prep notes.
Cap'n, I have no quarrels with your proposed healing fix. I'm sure it'll work fine for you. I don't think it's really necessary, but if it enhances your gaming experience, why not?
Sure, sometimes I handwave it, instead of requiring rolls. I don't want to waste table time figuring out if healing is going to take 10, 30, 50 minutes or whatever. My players have the system down pat, so very often I can simply take a 5-minute pit stop break and come back and they'll say "we healed everyone to full in "x" minutes, and I'll mark the elapsed time at the bottom of my adventure log sheet.
For me, elapsed time is a sort of count down to specific plot-linked events. Like the undead come out at dusk, or some dangerous foe is set to arrive at a given time, or some plot event will happen at a given time unless the PCs can stop it. Sure, sometimes the elapsed time clock is irrelevant, and the PCs can effectively take whatever amount of time they want. But very often I have an idea of what will happen sooner or later penned into my prep notes.
Cap'n, I have no quarrels with your proposed healing fix. I'm sure it'll work fine for you. I don't think it's really necessary, but if it enhances your gaming experience, why not?
MichaelSomething
Legend
Having to navigate an archaic subsystem is a small price to pay for immersion.
Dragonsbane
Proud Grognard
This. Heal fully between encounters? Really? Sounds like an MMO to me. It REALLY removes verisimilitude. As if 5E healing isn't bad enough?
I must disagree with much of OP's views, including the apparent my way is the right/fun way to play.
My experience:
- My players often cannot fully heal after a battle. Healing is nerfed in my game (Treat Wounds 1/day on a subject, Focus healing spells only work 1/day on a subject)
- I use random encounters, sometimes a great deal, even if players are not at 100% hp
- There are rarely safe places to rest while in dungeons or similar environs
- Wounded condition is not removable without a full rest
Our games (2 groups) are going strong. No TPKs (although in one group the sorcerer does go down now and then), no balance issues. Worst case is I click "weak" in Foundry on the monster, it lowers its numbers a little. Full rest before battles? I call bull****.
Additionally, if this post is answered (no big if not) I hope the OP can tone down his condescending attitude. Just because someone disagrees does not mean "they did not read the whole post". Not everyone has fun the same way. My tables would burst into laughter if I said they needed to heal after every fight, and the MMO comments would begin.
I don’t think expecting players to heal up is necessarily “like an MMO”. WWN expects it, but I don’t think anyone would accuse WWN of being “like an MMO”. Of course, WWN provides a different model of attrition (as discussed on page 2), so healing is not unlimited. Its attrition model also happens to work with wilderness exploration (because losing system strain requires eight hours of uninterrupted sleep).
The problem with Treat Wounds in PF2 is you need a lot of feats to make it work like it probably should out of the box, and there’s no cost to using it repeatedly out of battle. Something like healing surges, hit dice, system strain, or the stamina variant should have been the default; so there was a cost you had to consider. Yes, one can do wandering monsters, but unless they’re happening more frequently than the usual 1-in-6 chance, they’re not that much of a worry.
The problem with Treat Wounds in PF2 is you need a lot of feats to make it work like it probably should out of the box, and there’s no cost to using it repeatedly out of battle. Something like healing surges, hit dice, system strain, or the stamina variant should have been the default; so there was a cost you had to consider. Yes, one can do wandering monsters, but unless they’re happening more frequently than the usual 1-in-6 chance, they’re not that much of a worry.
I find myself being reminded frequently these days about how innovative 4e D&D was. It's like they had already worked out this healing paradigm (with limited healing surges), easy ways to strengthen or weaken opponents, minions, excellent tactical combat, etc. It was arguably better at doing PF2-style play in 2007.
The issue I have with using wandering monsters to discourage full heals between combats: a wandering monster is a combat, so after that fight, you are resting and healing again. It can create a feedback loop where little progress is being made in the actual adventure. I think the only way you can do it (without houserules) is to use a timer/narrative reasons to not be able to rest. That creates its own issues, and makes running an adventure like Abomination Vaults (which has no time pressure) very unsatisfying.
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