Discussing problems with D&D/d20 rules...

[Eben]

For me D&D/d20 is a bit of the best of both worlds, when it comes to enjoying my games.
I used to hate AD&D. It was fairly complex, the rules were a mess (do I roll high of low, yesterday I couldn't tell a deer from a bear but today I am one of the worlds foremost hunting experts, ...) So I used to look for realistic systems. We had a great time with rolemaster. But eventually you realise that every system has its flaws and you get disappointed if you can't do something with it. When I read the good reviews 3e got, I decided to take a look and saw a system I had hated turned into something worthwhile. It' still not the Alpha and Omega of gaming, but it's fun combat, cool skills and feats, you can make you characters fairly unique and you can stage epic fights with a fair chance of survival for you PC's.
Have fun with you search, I know I hade with mine (and who knows in time...)!

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

Yes, HarnMaster isn't perfect for everyone... it's just perfect for me right now, where I'm at in my gaming. When I say "perfect", I mean "practically perfect", LOL --- no system is 100%. But despite some clunky and ill-defined mechanics (and a few glaring omissions), HarnMaster is realistic and gritty, which is what I've desperately wanted for a long time now. One can only slay so many gods, giants and dragons before longing to rediscover the thrill of running from a couple smelly, buck-toothed bandits in the woods, LOL, because you know they can nail you in one hit.!

I've also heard great things about THE RIDDLE OF STEEL FRPG and am intrigued by its low fantasy, deadly grit. Anyone have any experience with it?

 

[Numion]

As a side note, doesn't anyone else think that "silkworm" 's avatar at the harn boards looks.. a little bit suspicious? (In an Austin Powers kind of way)

 

[Numion]

BTW, Kaptain: Do they have some sort of initiation period in the Harnic society during which you have to return to the whatever gaming community you came from, and spread the harn gospel before you're made a 'full' member?

EDIT: I just actually read your posts.. They read like a cross between the Shopping Channel and therealultimatepower.net .. whoah. Get a job pimping stuff at the shopping channel or something. Might have more luck there ..

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

LOL, I've been a "hard sell" salesman for nearly 15 years, so what did you expect? Seriously, I don't expect any "great success" in winning converts, but if I can win over a few people to try Harn, then I've done my job (and fulfilled my Harnic Initiation Ritual).

Hmm. Numion, you're in Finland, so it's odd you are not a Harniac. Most Harniacs are from Scandinavian countries for some odd reason.

 

[Numion]

Hmm. Numion, you're in Finland, so it's odd you are not a Harniac. Most Harniacs are from Scandinavian countries for some odd reason.

I guess finnish players are pretty educated (Ha!, I'm an exception, of course ), though we only have one (1) RPG shop in Helsinki, which is both the capital and largest city in Finland.

Sorry I came out harsher than I intended, I'm actually pretty intrested in Hârn. Just for the time being I'm pretty excited about D&D, and don't consider the problems you mentioned to be problems at all.

Of course it's always fun to strike fear into players with deadly combat!

 

[Bagpuss]

Can somebody remind me what the actual point of this thread was again?

There is no valid complaint about D&D or D20 as far as I can see, sure it doesn't do realistic low level fantasy, but then D&D has NEVER done realistic low-magic fantasy, its never tried to except with people homebrew worlds. It doesn't even pretend to be realistic.

There are systems that do make an attempt to be realistic but a lot of them don't sell well. Most people don't want realistic, they want simple and fun. Realistic would mean your character has a very good chance of dying from accidents, disease or an unskilled peasant with a pickfork. Most people want heroic fantasy thats what D&D and D20 do well.

When I want to play a realistic game I don't play D&D.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Can somebody remind me what the actual point of this thread was again?

Seemingly- a constant need for affirmation.

FD

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

I guess finnish players are pretty educated (Ha!, I'm an exception, of course ), though we only have one (1) RPG shop in Helsinki, which is both the capital and largest city in Finland.

Sorry I came out harsher than I intended, I'm actually pretty intrested in Hârn. Just for the time being I'm pretty excited about D&D, and don't consider the problems you mentioned to be problems at all.

Of course it's always fun to strike fear into players with deadly combat!

The problems I mentioned are problems for me; if they are not problems for you, then that's great! That means you're having fun and that's all that matters. I'm just presenting one possible alternative (Harn) for those who want something different.

Just to make sure nobody goes off on a rant here, it is not my intention to suggest that D&D is inferior to HarnMaster; they both do an excellent job but for different types of games: D&D for high fantasy, HarnMaster for low fantasy, or dark fantasy (it meshes well with horror/Cthulhu type games) or even historical simulation (just use their Lionheart Medieval England Sourcebook).

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

Seemingly- a constant need for affirmation.

FD

I thought it was because I secretly enjoy being beat up by 20th level meanies like Psion? LOL