(Discussion) General Part VII

[nimisgod]

If you read the first post of the Character Thread, you will find that I've finally placed the levels for which characters are approved. So not only do you have to get your character approved when you first make him/her, but also whenever you gain a level.

Naturally, if you are of a level that that hasn't been approved yet, please send me an email.

Judges and GMs please ask PCs in your games that have gained a level to email me concerning approval.

An unrelated question:

How does one go about purchasing/commissioning the creation of magick items in Orussus?

 

[Zweischneid]

An unrelated question:

How does one go about purchasing/commissioning the creation of magick items in Orussus?

Well, there is an awfully intimidating post with craft-points, etc.. in the approved contend section.

As for simply purchasing stuff.. I'd put my vote in (if there is such a thing) to not have a shop for magic items (xpet potions & stuff, if you really have to, or possibly player-crafted things)



1.
The fun of D&D is chasing the mystical stuff out there in the world, not stopping by the house next to the bakery and loading up on gear that is perfectly crafted to your own needs.

(and thereby basicallly devaluating any loot from adventures which might be less-optimal and will therefore in turn only be sold to said shop 90% of the time)


2.
There's also something decidedly ugly about a druid staking a claim on a magic two-hander or a fighter on a ring of wizardry, which will surely happen if magic items are reduced to their respective cash value only if anything and everything can be traded for or sold at the 'magic-item-shop' for something useful.


3.
Also, the 'power-gap' between high-level and low-level characters will widen considerably I believel, if any player can optimize his selection of magic items in a shop.
Since LENWorld adventures regularly feature very mixed level set-ups in adventures (I don't think it will be uncommon to see lvl 3 characters traveling along lvl 7 or even 8 ones, once there are such characters around) it would in the long run make things much easier for DMs and much more cordial among players, if characters aren't fine-tuned to the last potions and enchanted ring.


all just my opinion though.

 

[Creamsteak]

Orussus has a 50,000 gp limit. Liquid assets in the city are probably between one and two million gold pieces, but that includes all commodities. You can extrapolate from that, and since generally thats where all the shopping is, that's pretty much the general setup.

 

[Zweischneid]

Orussus has a 50,000 gp limit. Liquid assets in the city are probably between one and two million gold pieces, but that includes all commodities. You can extrapolate from that, and since generally thats where all the shopping is, that's pretty much the general setup.

So you can just note down any SRD Item below 50,000 gp on your character sheet once you have the cash?
Why did we work through all the roleplaying in the last adventure to come up with plausible reasons for loot-origins?
Why don't the DMs just hand out straight cash to be at least fair to everyone?
Why kill all the potential adventure hooks (yes, you've heard rumors of the fabled Claymore of Frost before, but you'll have to find it first) with such a simple ruling.

Thats.. dunno, kinda disappointing. 'sigh'

 

[Patlin]

I know I could have had Rilithorne simply hand out cash, and that would have been easier to divide, but there are some advantages to uneven distribution as well. If everyone had an equal amount of the loot, no one would be able to afford a magic weapon. Personally, I was a bit tired of no one being able to penetrate DR, and wanted a couple of magic items in the party. Since I'm encouraging (but of course not requiring) the group to stay together for at least a little while, I'm hoping I can give out enough loot in the next adventure to let you all even things out.

I'm aware of both the good and the bad of making magic items easy to purchase, and in in-person games I usually restrict purchases to a large degree. However, I also custom tailor my adventures so that the player who really wants the fabled Claymore of Frost can actually quest for it, and if you really want a less significant item you could hire an agent to scour the region for one that might be on sale somewhere, for some surcharge over the normal market price.

With the compromises implicit in a shared world, I have no problem with an open, easy market. My own opinion, of course. For example, while Rilithorne called in a favor to get some magic items to give you guys as a reward, I have no problem with additional purchases being made when you actually meet the weaponcrafter, if you can scare up the funds.

 

[Xael]

So you can just note down any SRD Item below 50,000 gp on your character sheet once you have the cash?
Why did we work through all the roleplaying in the last adventure to come up with plausible reasons for loot-origins?
Why don't the DMs just hand out straight cash to be at least fair to everyone?
Why kill all the potential adventure hooks (yes, you've heard rumors of the fabled Claymore of Frost before, but you'll have to find it first) with such a simple ruling.

Thats.. dunno, kinda disappointing. 'sigh'

How many characters you think will be carrying around 50 000 worth of cash or gems, or even anywhere near it (other than in near-20th levels)? In the D&D I've seen, people don't usually save up money, they spend it when they get it. And if you're going to limit buying items much, money will start to lose it's value. I wouldn't think that higher level fighters will be really happy when they can't buy anything else than scrolls or potions with their money. And at higher levels, the PC's will have lots of money. The city gold piece limit already puts limits to money use. And you'd have to limit selling items too if you're going to limit buying them. And believe me, all "loot" isn't useful to everyone, and people will want to get rid of it. And I doubt that the player-driven market will be enough.

And the role-playing reason in the Burning Tower adventure was: "I have a colleague to the north of here that crafts magic weaponry." Do you think that the mage crafts them just for fun?

One solution would be to make rules for the shopping, availibility of magic items, and put somebody in charge of keeping track of player shopping and telling them what they can and what they can't buy. Or then you could just let DM's decide what players can buy while they're in the city during their adventure, but this would lead to conflicting views of magic availibility.

I agree with you that flavor-wise "ye olde magick shoppes" and "XX XXX gp limit" might not be the best options, but they certainly are the easiest solutions for LEW.

 

[Knight Otu]

Orussus has a 50,000 gp limit. Liquid assets in the city are probably between one and two million gold pieces, but that includes all commodities. You can extrapolate from that, and since generally thats where all the shopping is, that's pretty much the general setup.

Creamsteak, here's a smallish thing - over in the Death and Retirement proposal, we established a soft level limit for NPCs, at about 9th level. How about, while we keep the 50000 gp limit, we add an additional limitation that the item cannot be one that requires level 10 or more (remembering that the Caster Level line is not generally a prerequisite). So, weapons and armor above a +3 bonus are out (though +3 with an +1 ability is likely still in). Items requiring a 6th or higher level spell are out. Staves and Rings would also be out, due to feat requirements.
Of course, that's all barring special circumstances, such as a PC wizard opening a shop for staves, DMs/judges including a dedicated shop in another city, etc. A bit of fine tuning might help, though.

So, the questing for special items will still be possible - even the Claymore of Frost. If it is a +3 icy burst weapon, it will be (barely) above the gold piece limit, after all.

 

[Xael]

Creamsteak, here's a smallish thing - over in the Death and Retirement proposal, we established a soft level limit for NPCs, at about 9th level. How about, while we keep the 50000 gp limit, we add an additional limitation that the item cannot be one that requires level 10 or more (remembering that the Caster Level line is not generally a prerequisite). So, weapons and armor above a +3 bonus are out (though +3 with an +1 ability is likely still in). Items requiring a 6th or higher level spell are out. Staves and Rings would also be out, due to feat requirements.

That's a nice compromise IMHO. The exclusion of staves and rings is somewhat strange, since there are cheap rings and somewhat cheap staves, but since you need to be 12th level to craft any of them, and since you decided about NPC level limit, it somewhat makes sense not to allow them. It's just a bit weird.

Of course, that's all barring special circumstances, such as a PC wizard opening a shop for staves, DMs/judges including a dedicated shop in another city, etc. A bit of fine tuning might help, though.

I mentioned this in the craft point thread: Since craft points are directly related to level and feats, they are going to run out at some point, and thus shop-crafters might have some trouble. I know you mentioned that there might be some other way to gain craft points, but you never really specified if it's just a possibility or planned.

I don't want to sound offending or anything, but since I'm playing in LEW and I have two characters that are going to take item creation feats and possibly opening some kind of shops at some point (should they live long enough), this is kind of an interesting subject to me.

 

[Knight Otu]

That's a nice compromise IMHO. The exclusion of staves and rings is somewhat strange, since there are cheap rings and somewhat cheap staves, but since you need to be 12th level to craft any of them, and since you decided about NPC level limit, it somewhat makes sense not to allow them. It's just a bit weird.

As I said, it's a soft limit. Also my compromise might be overruled. I suppose some of the cheaper rings and staves might make it to the "magic shops" of Orussus, though.

I mentioned this in the craft point thread: Since craft points are directly related to level and feats, they are going to run out at some point, and thus shop-crafters might have some trouble. I know you mentioned that there might be some other way to gain craft points, but you never really specified if it's just a possibility or planned.

If it were solely my decision, jobs to do with crafting would award extra Craft points by time, and someone crafting magic items for a living certainly would receive more Craft points.

Creamsteak - should I turn my compromise and job system into proposals now?

 

[Xael]

Also, a question about craft points:

To spend craft points toward the creation of an alchemical, masterwork, or magic item, you must have the Craft Masterwork Items feat or assist someone who does (see Assisting, below). Crafting nonmasterwork armor and weapons or simple items-tools, chests, saddles, and the like-doesn't require a Craft feat. Anyone who helps with the creation of such an item can contribute craft points at the normal rate.

Does this meant that a wizard enchanting an existing suit of (masterwork) armor, weapon, or other item needs the Craft Masterwork Items feat?