Disdain for new fantasy

[ArmoredSaint]

...the Japanese took something we invented and did it vastly better.

This opinion is every bit as subjective and unfair as the pro-anime crowd are charging the anti-anime folks of being.

No offense--to each, his own, and all--but where you see originality in anime art/stoylines, I see just the opposite--anime has a massive list of tropes, memes, and conceits it constantly re-hashes, and regurgitates with each new series; none of it could be described as original by any stretch. Where you see compelling plots and well-developed characters, I see characters acting nonsensically and unrealistically, and non-linear storytelling taken to the point of obfuscation. Where you see depth, I see shallowness. Where you see something new and original and fascinating, I see vapid, mass-market crassness.

But it isn't the storytelling elements that I fear will negatively impact D&D. It's the artistic style. I don't want D&D to feel like Dragonball.

From what I've seen so far, 4th edition art has more of a "Classical" feel to it, and doesn't remind me of anime at all.

 

[Lurks-no-More]

But it isn't the storytelling elements that I fear will negatively impact D&D. It's the artistic style. I don't want D&D to feel like Dragonball.

A lot (actually, I'd say most) of anime doesn't look like Dragonball, either.

From what I've seen so far, 4th edition art has more of a "Classical" feel to it, and doesn't remind me of anime at all.

Nor the artwork in 3.* edition, in my honest opinion. It's not "classical" in feel, true, but that doesn't make it "anime-like", either.

 

[ThirdWizard]

A lot (actually, I'd say most) of anime doesn't look like Dragonball, either.

Yeah, Akira Toriyama's art style is very distinct and stands out whenever you see it anywhere (Chrono Trigger for instance).

 

[WayneLigon]

This opinion is every bit as subjective and unfair as the pro-anime crowd are charging the anti-anime folks of being.

Well, yes and no.

Yes, it's my opinion but it's an opinion based in fact. I could compare many factors - number of animation studios, number of animmators employed, number of wide-release animated features, number of animated shows on TV, the recognition that animators get, plus the relative commercial success in ratings - to say that the Japanese animation industry is in fact 'better' than what we have here.

And no, because in a lot of ways it's comparing apples and oranges. What goes over well in one market doesn't in another. American attitudes towards animation are different, and we were dominated by one studio in it's twilight years for so long that about two generations of people basically forgot what good animation was like.

 

[D.Shaffer]

Other countries didn't, and produce a vastly more mature art form now where animation isn't looked down on as something for kids in diapers. We're just now coming to that realization and starting the long hard road of catch-up.

Well actually, anime IS considered kid stuff in Japan. The vast majority of it is targeted at those under the age of 21. Admitting you like anime past that age isnt exactly something you'd say in public. Saying you still watch cartoons in the US might get you a few strange looks, but it wont get you ostracised either.

Japan might target a wider age bracket, but it's not exactly the fabled land of milk and honey for the geek set either.

 

[WizarDru]

Well actually, anime IS considered kid stuff in Japan. The vast majority of it is targeted at those under the age of 21. Admitting you like anime past that age isnt exactly something you'd say in public. Saying you still watch cartoons in the US might get you a few strange looks, but it wont get you ostracised either.

Japan might target a wider age bracket, but it's not exactly the fabled land of milk and honey for the geek set either.

It all depends. Manga is very widely read in Japan, even if Anime covers a smaller demographic. Many manga titles become live action movies instead of anime; claiming you like "Uzumaki" for example, would be little different than claiming you like "Hellboy". It doesn't necessarily say anything untoward about you to the common audience, other than having a preference for horror movies instead of action movies.

Also, public reaction varies. Saying you watch "Berserk" or "Gantz" will certainly elicit a different reaction than saying you like "Crayon Shin-chan". That would be like saying you enjoyed "Spawn" on HBO versus say, "Arthur". Some anime is aimed for teens and college students, not kids, and are viewed accordingly. Clearly a show like "The Melancholy of Harumi Suzumiya" has a different kind of cultural clout than a show like "Naruto".

 

[Mallus]

Clearly a show like "The Melancholy of Harumi Suzumiya"...

Ah yes, a show that blends, among other things, high school comedy-drama, harem anime, post-Singularity SF, and Tom Stoppard's Rosencratnz and Guilderstern Are Dead together... to enormous success. I'm not going to get into this whole East vs. West pop-cultural thing, but I can safely say I've never seen anything remotely like that even attempted on U.S. television.

edit: it's Haruhi...

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Also, the Ghouls in Kadath made a cute "meeping" noise. That was really weird.

Funny story.

I was playing Arkham Horror this weekend, and came across one of the planar adventure cards which said something like, "The meeping of the ghouls scares you ..." or something like that.

The entire gaming group (D&D vets all, at this point) looked at each other, looked at the card, and said, "Yeah - that's gotta be a typo. Weeping? Mewling, maybe?"

Then, predictably, we all diverged into Seinfeld references: "The Moops."

 

[Merlion]

It all depends. Manga is very widely read in Japan, even if Anime covers a smaller demographic. Many manga titles become live action movies instead of anime; claiming you like "Uzumaki" for example, would be little different than claiming you like "Hellboy". It doesn't necessarily say anything untoward about you to the common audience, other than having a preference for horror movies instead of action movies.

Also, public reaction varies. Saying you watch "Berserk" or "Gantz" will certainly elicit a different reaction than saying you like "Crayon Shin-chan". That would be like saying you enjoyed "Spawn" on HBO versus say, "Arthur". Some anime is aimed for teens and college students, not kids, and are viewed accordingly. Clearly a show like "The Melancholy of Harumi Suzumiya" has a different kind of cultural clout than a show like "Naruto".

Exactly. Its important to bear in mind that the broadest definition of "anime" is neither a genre, nor an art style, it is simply any animation from Japan (or some times Asia in general.) It covers all genres, types and styles, and different ones are targeted at different age groups and demographics.

And I think the overall attitude toward animation is very different. Most people in the US dismiss anything animated, especially until recently, as purely fare for young children, and as generally having little to no element of seriousness or sophistication.

Also, I think some of it is because many other cultures don't have the same assumption that we do that people under 18 are incapable of understanding or enjoying anything sophisticated, complicated or "deep".

The Manga connection is important as well, because as WizarDru says Manga is very culturally accepted in Japan, far more so than comic books here, and most anime are tied to manga, or at least many.

 

[RFisher]

And I think the overall attitude toward animation is very different. Most people in the US dismiss anything animated, especially until recently, as purely fare for young children, and as generally having little to no element of seriousness or sophistication.

The strange thing is how my 7yo son has seem to have already picked this up.

When I recently got my Star Trek: The Animated Series DVDs, I asked if he'd like to watch an episode with me. He wasn't interested, but when I started it, he sat down & watched it. I said, "I thought you weren't interested." He said, "I would've been if you'd told me what 'animated' meant." (^_^)

Even growing up in a house where it is clear that the Pixar, Disney's Robin Hood & Sword in the Stone, & Fleischer Superman DVDs are dad's; or that the Animaniacs videos are mom's; despite the fact that he only watched Powerpuff Girls because I watched them & that I'd watch Samurai Jack afterwards even though he didn't like it; or seeing me watch Teen Titans even if he doesn't; despite catching mom & dad watching The Simpsons or Futurama or knowing that I & my co-workers went to The Simpsons movie; he still seems to have picked up a bit of this attitude. That's not even mentioning the anime he knows I own or rent--some of which he isn't allowed to watch yet.