Disintegrate vs Summon 6

[Victim]

Do you have any other arcane caster in the group?

Summon Monster 6 is very good as long as you are hasted, and thus don't have to worry about the full round casting time. I've tried to use it once without being hasted, and my spell was interrupted by a 60 something point Firestorm. I should have packed Heal instead.

Also, as an arcane caster, you don't have to worry about summoning evil creatures. 1d3 Fiendish Girallons can do lots of damage too. Summon Monster 6 will be pretty flexible since you choose anything from level 6 on down.

However, Disentegrate is more than just an Instant Death effect. As people have already mentioned, it can be the only way to kill certain force effects. It works especially well on objects and can be used to bypass trapped doors, defeat certain kinds of traps like the good, old fashsioned rolling boulder, or just cause destruction.

 

[gfunk]

Unless he happens to have Protection from Good / Evil / Law / Chaos prepared (or the Circles of Protection). Those will shut down a summoned Dire Bear in a heartbeat.

First he needs to beat the Bear's SR. At 24, it's not too easy.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Spell Turning does not reflect rays, so Disintegrate can't bounce back at you.

If you are a sorcerer take the Summon spell; you'll thank us for it. It's too flexible to give up, and the elemental you can summon with it is just... nasty.

Note that Disintegrate has a lot of uses, such as removing obstacles, Walls of Force, Forcecage, certain opponents, etc.

 

[Epametheus]

Oh, yeah. Rashak, is this for a sorcerer or for a wizard?

Taking disintegrate for use as an over-sized hole punch works better for sorcerers..

Yes, Protection from "insert here" will stop summoned creatures, but that's one of the reasons why you cast Dispel Magic on people.

Hmm... I wonder what the heck this is supposed to mean?

Battle Frenzy (Ex): A barbazu can work itself into a battle frenzy similar to the barbarian’s rage ability (+4 Strength, +4 Constitution, +2 morale bonus to Will saves, -2 AC penalty), for a +2 morale bonus to attacks and damage and 12 extra hit points. The frenzy lasts 6 rounds, and the barbazu suffers no ill effects afterward.

Do they get just the second described benefit, or what? If they get both, then Barbazu are may be a good bit better than I took them to be.

Anyways, other random things you can do with SMVI beyond Da Bears (or similar raw brute force approaches)..
1) Arrowhawks = airborne mobile artillery; their lightning attacks are just breath weapons, so no SR allowed.
2) Xorns & Earth Elementals = circumvent stone & earth barriers and plenty of brute force on the side
3) 1d4+1 Lantern Archons = teleporting laser array
4) An Erinyes can cast Suggestion ("Sit down and shut up") every round, though I guess this isn't too helpful against the Drow with their SR.

At this point, casting Tongues may be a good prep -- when you summon something intelligent, you want to be sure that you can give it orders.

Since you aren't just taking both, I'm guessing that this is for a sorcerer. Are you the party's utility mage, or are you the party's killin' mage?

 

[gfunk]

One very good tactic using SMVI is to summon an Eryines and then cast Darkness or Deeper Darkness on her. Devils can see perfectly in any type of darkness and the Eryines has the charm gaze. Her targets need not see her, she only needs to see them. Nasty!

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Battle Frenzy (Ex): A barbazu can work itself into a battle frenzy similar to the barbarian’s rage ability (+4 Strength, +4 Constitution, +2 morale bonus to Will saves, -2 AC penalty), for a +2 morale bonus to attacks and damage and 12 extra hit points. The frenzy lasts 6 rounds, and the barbazu suffers no ill effects afterward.
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Do they get just the second described benefit, or what? If they get both, then Barbazu are may be a good bit better than I took them to be.

It works exactly the same as rage. They don't gain a +2 morale bonus to hit and damage; that's supposed to be a "morale" bonus to Strength.

In short, they goofed. It's the same as rage, without the nasty exhaustion effect.

 

[James McMurray]

First he needs to beat the Bear's SR. At 24, it's not too easy.

True, but if you're casting SMVI as a sorcerer, you are level 12. That means most foes you face that are casters will be level 10 - 14. Not too terribly hard to bypass. Plus, at those high levels, first level cleric spells aren't as useful as early on, so someone may be packing 2 or 3 copies of prot. from ___.

 

[Thanee]

There are quite a few spells I'd choose before I'd consider those two...

Mordenkainen's Lucubration (for a Wizard among the first choices in that level IMHO), Analyze Dweomer, Greater Dispelling, Greater Shadow Evocation, Tenser's Transformation, Antimagic Field.

But if you really want to choose one of those two... I'd get Disintegrate and later get Summon Monster VII or VIII, since they are just so much better than Summon Monster VI.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

The few times I play a Sorceror, I usually take every single Summon Monster spell. That way, no matter what spell levels I have left, I have creatures on hand-- and if I have a quiet corner of the battle field and want to save high-level spell slots, I'll cast the smaller Summon Monsters repeatedly.

My party members usually distract everyone who's trying to distract me.

 

[Apok]

There are quite a few spells I'd choose before I'd consider those two...

Mordenkainen's Lucubration (for a Wizard among the first choices in that level IMHO), Analyze Dweomer, Greater Dispelling, Greater Shadow Evocation, Tenser's Transformation, Antimagic Field.

Mordenkainen's Lucubration; For a Wizard, yes this spell rocks on toast. Useless to a Sorc, though (for obvious reassons).

Analyze Dweomer; waste of time unless your DM is a real hardarse about identifying magical items. I'd advise all sorcs to avoid this one like the plague.

Greater Dispelling; Definitely worthwile. Thus far the only spell you've mentioned that I'd actually consider over SMVI or Disintegrate.

Greater Shadow Evocation; Only if you are specializing in Illusions. The fact that it effectively gives two saves and does only a fraction of the damage/effect of the spell it mirrors makes it very unattractive.

Tensers Transformation; Another great spell, but not better than SMVI or Disintigrate IMO. Also, requires a Potion of Strength as a material component (which may or may not be an issue depending on the DM). I tend to think of this as a "last ditch effort" spell when you've exhausted all other options.

Antimagic Field; Probably one of the most potent spells in the game. However, it seems to work better for NPC enemies than PC's. It nullifies magic just fine, but it also makes you a sitting duck to anyone with decent fighting ability.