Dislike 4E? You can write off 5E
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Remathilis
Legend
Well, that depends...
If you're looking for downwards AC, spell memorization, Thief Skills, % Strength, or Class hit dice, you're probably out of luck.
However, there is still a chance 4e reverses (or at least improves) some of the changes it made. Perhaps more classes will have greater diversity of mechanics and more variety in their power selection (akin to how monk or psion works). Perhaps "the math" will be tweaked to remove necessity of masterwork armor or weapon expertise. Perhaps some monsters will be given more powers and "fluff abilities". Perhaps magic items will not suck so hard. Perhaps there will be a greater emphasis on non-combat abilities and powers beyond traps and skill challenges. Perhaps they'll have a multi-classing system that works out the gate. Perhaps they FINALLY decide what a skill challenge entails.
There is plenty of revision they could do to fix many problems without redesigning the whole shebang again. I doubt they'll get the smoke back in the bottle, but they could do a lot to make the game feel more like its olden days without returning to its obscure mechanical roots.
Least that's my hope. We'll see in 3-5 years. Until then, I've got Pathfinder.
If you're looking for downwards AC, spell memorization, Thief Skills, % Strength, or Class hit dice, you're probably out of luck.
However, there is still a chance 4e reverses (or at least improves) some of the changes it made. Perhaps more classes will have greater diversity of mechanics and more variety in their power selection (akin to how monk or psion works). Perhaps "the math" will be tweaked to remove necessity of masterwork armor or weapon expertise. Perhaps some monsters will be given more powers and "fluff abilities". Perhaps magic items will not suck so hard. Perhaps there will be a greater emphasis on non-combat abilities and powers beyond traps and skill challenges. Perhaps they'll have a multi-classing system that works out the gate. Perhaps they FINALLY decide what a skill challenge entails.
There is plenty of revision they could do to fix many problems without redesigning the whole shebang again. I doubt they'll get the smoke back in the bottle, but they could do a lot to make the game feel more like its olden days without returning to its obscure mechanical roots.
Least that's my hope. We'll see in 3-5 years. Until then, I've got Pathfinder.
Mouseferatu
Hero
Wow. Even for the Internet, this topic is really... Internetty.
Look, it's straight from the horse's mouth, if this isn't just rumour, and I was hoping for a departure from the 4E design philosophy, not an evolution or refinement, and that's what he's effectively saying it won't be (a departure).
It's understandable from a business standpoint; I'm sure 4E's design approach sells a lot of miniatures.
ppaladin123
Adventurer
Thought this needed a thread of it's own. No end to the schism, it seems, and no hope of joining a current edition for the foreseeable future if you don't like the cut of 4E's jib.
No need for me to check out the 5E books now.
Basically he said that if he were to start designing 5e tomorrow (and there is no indication that he will even be on the project when 5e starts development), he'd keep the basic skeleton of the 4e system and play around with the details...magic items, rituals, ability scores.
I'm betting regardless that developers could keep the basic framework and still incorporate changes and tweaks that would win back fans of older editions. For example, the power system could easily be altered to make some arcane casters Vancian, or martial characters have refreshable encounter abilities. Utility powers could be separated into non-combat skill abilities, and combat utilities. Multi-class restrictions could be relaxed. The experiments with stances, forms, rages, free daily rituals, skill powers, hybrids, auto-hit abilities, removing magic items, and now power points show that there is plenty of room to alter things without changing the core.
BryonD
Hero
The statement was James thoughts; his opinions. It did not come across as a statement of WotC policy.
The entire line of discuss was highly hypothetical. It was not how we are working on 5E, it was how James would prefer it to be if they were.
In another question James more definitively stated that there would "almost certainly" be a new setting. Now in 4E speak, a setting only cover a single year. But if it is "almost" certain, then that year is more than a year off.
Bottom line, James opinion is the best window we have so far into WotC's thoughts re: 5E. And it is a very cracked, dusty window. Nothing should be at all implied that 5E is in the works. And even if James is dead on with the current thoughts for WotC as a whole, a lot will change between now and when 5E does come.
The entire line of discuss was highly hypothetical. It was not how we are working on 5E, it was how James would prefer it to be if they were.
In another question James more definitively stated that there would "almost certainly" be a new setting. Now in 4E speak, a setting only cover a single year. But if it is "almost" certain, then that year is more than a year off.
Bottom line, James opinion is the best window we have so far into WotC's thoughts re: 5E. And it is a very cracked, dusty window. Nothing should be at all implied that 5E is in the works. And even if James is dead on with the current thoughts for WotC as a whole, a lot will change between now and when 5E does come.
Sammael
Adventurer
Except it doesn't. Because two mini sets that were scheduled for this spring got canceled and rolled into what will be the only D&D mini set to be released this year - Lords of Madness (ETA: late August/September). D&D minis are not selling well and they are looking for a new model to try and salvage the line.
BTW, as cruel as this may sound, it is highly unlikely that the current batch of WotC designers/developers will survive the Great WotC Employee Purges of 2010 and 2011, so once WotC gets around to planning 5E, there will be a bunch of new designers with relatively fresh perspectives involved. Sure, they will have more experience with 4E than 3.x (and some of them will likely never have played 3.x to begin with), but who's to say how far they will want to go to prove their mettle?
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
Pfft. Of course you ask James Wyatt what he'd do for a hypothetical 5e, and it would be incremental changes to 4e. Ask Mote Cook what he'd do for a hypothetical 4e, and it would probably be incremental changes to 3e, too. Ask Bill Gates if he'd consider making Windows more like a Mac some time. Dudes did more than drink the kool-aid, they friggin' made the stuff.
Though I am glad they're thinking about re-structuring the magic items. Maybe by Adventurer's Vault 3 or 4 we'll have a brand spankin' new item structure. That's something they can tinker with without a whole new edition, I think. Rituals, too, I'd think they could do without a system-wide overhaul.
Anyway, no real news. "Guy who made a successful game that makes millions of dollars still a big fan of that game."
The big thing is that 4e is not meant to be the "final edition," which leaves a lot of room for possible iterations of 5e in a few years.
Though I am glad they're thinking about re-structuring the magic items. Maybe by Adventurer's Vault 3 or 4 we'll have a brand spankin' new item structure. That's something they can tinker with without a whole new edition, I think. Rituals, too, I'd think they could do without a system-wide overhaul.
Anyway, no real news. "Guy who made a successful game that makes millions of dollars still a big fan of that game."
The big thing is that 4e is not meant to be the "final edition," which leaves a lot of room for possible iterations of 5e in a few years.
Lord Xtheth
Explorer
I'd like to look at things this way. IF WoTC is already putting plans toward 5e, maybe, just MAYBE everything they promice to occur at launch will occur AT LAUNCH!
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