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Disney Plus could be rebooting Firefly

Well is it?

  • I'll be in my bunk (Yes)

    Votes: 8 22.9%
  • No

    Votes: 20 57.1%
  • Serenity Curry

    Votes: 7 20.0%

  • Total voters
    35

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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
I don't think the Reavers have been around that long in-universe, have they?

I got the impression that it was within the characters' lifetimes that the Miranda incident occurred. There would be no new Reavers, as what created them no longer exists.

So, Wheadon has said that a lot of what's in the movie is stuff we would have seen in the second season of the show, had it had a second season. However, it isn't exactly clear how much the origin of the Reavers may have changed, which can be seen in one notable plot hole...

Miranda, in the film had 30 million people on it. But somehow, the entire 'Verse forgets its existence within their own lifetimes? That doesn't make a lot of sense. It can make more sense if there's more time, for example - the longer the Alliance has to erase Miranda, the better.

Beyond that, in the episode Bushwhacked, we see example of a new Reaver created, and the episode tells us Mal has either seen it before or has heard of it happening. Whether this happens because the chemical agent used on Miranda is transmissable, or a new Reaver comes about through pure psychological trauma of watching what Reavers do, is never established.
 

embee

Lawyer by day. Rules lawyer by night.
I loved Firefly for what it was: a space western with just a soucant of "The Continuing Adventures of Han Solo."

But the reason it worked was because it didn't work.

Firefly originally did not work. It was shown out of order, was given death time slots and inconsistent ones at that, got butchered by pan & scan, was advertised as something it wasn't (a wacky space comedy), and existed at a time before binge-watching.

Firefly was a happy accident that got rediscovered once it made its way to DVD and Netflix. It ushered in the era of binge-watching and was boosted by being the "failed" show by the creator of Buffy.

But the charm of it was from not just the cast but also the scrappy underdog story of its failure (even if it was a bit inside-baseball),

Hard pass. Let the past die and build something new.
 

I guess the final choise will be to produce a spiritual succesor, the same formula/way/method but within Star Wars, because this is a better hook for the audence. We only would need a group of charismatic people, somebody you would become friend if they were your coworker.
 

MarkB

Legend
I loved Firefly for what it was: a space western with just a soucant of "The Continuing Adventures of Han Solo."

But the reason it worked was because it didn't work.

Firefly originally did not work. It was shown out of order, was given death time slots and inconsistent ones at that, got butchered by pan & scan, was advertised as something it wasn't (a wacky space comedy), and existed at a time before binge-watching.

Firefly was a happy accident that got rediscovered once it made its way to DVD and Netflix. It ushered in the era of binge-watching and was boosted by being the "failed" show by the creator of Buffy.

But the charm of it was from not just the cast but also the scrappy underdog story of its failure (even if it was a bit inside-baseball),

Hard pass. Let the past die and build something new.
None of that happened with its UK broadcast, and I still managed to enjoy it just fine, when it was first shown, for its own sake, not for any meta reasons.
 

Nikosandros

Golden Procrastinator
None of that happened with its UK broadcast, and I still managed to enjoy it just fine, when it was first shown, for its own sake, not for any meta reasons.
Indeed. Back then, Firefly didn't air in Italy. When I moved for two years in the US, Serenity came out in the theaters. I was vaguely aware that it was based on a TV show. I went to see it and I really loved it and later bought the series on DVD and loved it even more.
 

Miranda, in the film had 30 million people on it. But somehow, the entire 'Verse forgets its existence within their own lifetimes? That doesn't make a lot of sense. It can make more sense if there's more time, for example - the longer the Alliance has to erase Miranda, the better.

I don't think it was forgotten, just covered up.

The recording from the rescue ship that the Serenity crew found says something like "It wasn't what we expected; it wasn't a war or a terraforming event." Clearly, the government was confused when they lost contact with Miranda . They had no idea what happened, and sent the rescue ship for recon. After getting that transmission, it would have been relatively easy to just lie and report that it had been some sort of disaster that killed the colony and made it toxic due to radiation/disease/technobabble. The reavers would actually help that cover up by killing any scavengers or conspiracy theorists who came searching.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
I don't think it was forgotten, just covered up.

No. It was forgotten. As I recall, when the crew of Serenity learned about it they went, in effect, "Miranda? What's that? Never heard of it." If it had been sold as a massive accident or catastrophe within their lifetimes, folks would remember it, because it took 30 million lives.
 
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doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
So, Wheadon has said that a lot of what's in the movie is stuff we would have seen in the second season of the show, had it had a second season. However, it isn't exactly clear how much the origin of the Reavers may have changed, which can be seen in one notable plot hole...

Miranda, in the film had 30 million people on it. But somehow, the entire 'Verse forgets its existence within their own lifetimes? That doesn't make a lot of sense. It can make more sense if there's more time, for example - the longer the Alliance has to erase Miranda, the better.

Beyond that, in the episode Bushwhacked, we see example of a new Reaver created, and the episode tells us Mal has either seen it before or has heard of it happening. Whether this happens because the chemical agent used on Miranda is transmissable, or a new Reaver comes about through pure psychological trauma of watching what Reavers do, is never established.
None of those things are plot holes.

30 million people on a planet with little outside contact, kept under wraps by the government, and then all mention of it scrubbed from records, is entirely believable. It's quite likely the verse has multiple times more population than modern day Earth, and who is going to remember a small unremarkable world like Miranda? The test subjects were probably chosen in part to avoid selecting one part of a large but close extended family, which isn't hard to do, nor is it hard for such a government to shut up any family that does come looking.

The overwhelming majority of people never knew Miranda existed in the first place.

We know Miranda happened during the lifetime of the crew, because Reavers showed up during that timeframe. There is no reason for Mal not to have seen or heard about people becoming Reavers, if they've been around since the war or before it. While they don't explicitly say that the new Reaver came about purely by way of trauma, it is the implication of the episode, and the theory of the show's main character in the episode. Of course, an unanswered question isn't a plot hole.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
No. It was forgotten. As I recall, when the crew of Serenity learned about it they went, in effect, "Miranda? What's that? Never heard of it." If it had been sold as a massive accident or catastrophe within their lifetimes, folks would remember it, because it took 30 million lives.
No, that doesn't necessarily follow. This is a world in which whole colonies being lost is extremely unlikely to be a unique or even decade defining event.

And most people probably never heard of the place to begin with, or ever heard about 30 million people being lost, or anything.
 

MarkB

Legend
No. It was forgotten. As I recall, when the crew of Serenity learned about it they went, in effect, "Miranda? What's that? Never heard of it." If it had been sold as a massive accident or catastrophe within their lifetimes, folks would remember it, because it took 30 million lives.
Wash remembers there being a call for colonists to settle there, but nothing after that. For it to have been so completely forgotten, information about the place would have had to be suppressed right from the start, even before there was any disaster. Essentially, it was planned as a science experiment from the beginning, and was isolated to keep the testing environment clean, and to ensure nobody knew what was actually happening there.

Certainly a huge undertaking, and an implausible one, but not entirely impossible. The Firefly 'verse has a huge number of terraformed moons and planets in its one star system, many of which have a whole slew of issues, and communication can get flaky out past the inner worlds.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
No, that doesn't necessarily follow. This is a world in which whole colonies being lost is extremely unlikely to be a unique or even decade defining event.

Upon what do you base that?

We have no direct canon statement as to the population of the 'Verse. The non-canon number we have is about 50 billion people. To scale, then, the loss of Miranda would have been equivalent to about 4 million people dying in a single event on our Earth today.

Basically, it should be about the equivalent of nuking Los Angeles.
 

Wash remembers there being a call for colonists to settle there, but nothing after that. For it to have been so completely forgotten, information about the place would have had to be suppressed right from the start, even before there was any disaster. Essentially, it was planned as a science experiment from the beginning, and was isolated to keep the testing environment clean, and to ensure nobody knew what was actually happening there.

Certainly a huge undertaking, and an implausible one, but not entirely impossible. The Firefly 'verse has a huge number of terraformed moons and planets in its one star system, many of which have a whole slew of issues, and communication can get flaky out past the inner worlds.

I'll also throw out there that the name "Miranda" was probably not the name that it would be remembered by. Everybody knows about Chernobyl, the number of people that recognize the name Pripyat is much smaller, the number of people who remember Shipelicki village is lower still.

Also, what percentage of people in the current western world could name the Banqiao Dam failure, the San Juanico disaster, or the Bhobal chemical spill off the top of their heads?*

*Edit: Full disclosure, the only one I could remember the full name of myself without googling was Bhobal, and I couldn't spell that without checking. And I totally cheated by using Wikipedia to pull out the disasters with the most deaths. I was going to go with the Boston molasses incident and 2005 BP oil explosion on my first round.
 
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Upon what do you base that?

We have no direct canon statement as to the population of the 'Verse. The non-canon number we have is about 50 billion people. To scale, then, the loss of Miranda would have been equivalent to about 4 million people dying in a single event on our Earth today.

Basically, it should be about the equivalent of nuking Los Angeles.

Upon what do you base your assumption that we're wrong? We have the canon as presented by the movie as proof. You have to prove it's wrong for it to be a plot hole.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Upon what do you base that?

We have no direct canon statement as to the population of the 'Verse. The non-canon number we have is about 50 billion people. To scale, then, the loss of Miranda would have been equivalent to about 4 million people dying in a single event on our Earth today.

Basically, it should be about the equivalent of nuking Los Angeles.
Except people know about Los Angeles, it's been around for generations, it's a central hub of trade and culture.

The number of people doesn't actually impact the likelyhood of covering it up all that much. What we have is a small town on the frontier, run by government doctors, abandoned when the experiment went bad, and no maps show it's location, no record speak of it, etc.

30 million people doesn't make it so people know anything about it. Wash recalls a call for colonists, but nothing else. That seems pretty normal. Why would the govt even announce tht those people are dead or that the colony failed? Just quietly erase all mention of the place and move on, let the public be distracted by other stuff.
 

Also, it's stated somewhere that standard practice for new colonies was to dump the population on a moon or planet and let them fend for themselves. So presumably, until they can establish themselves as a viable trading partner or other form of destination, the rest of the 'Verse has no meaningful information about them.

If this happens with, say, a dozen new colonies, it's not hard to imagine that nobody wonders much about one that doesn't make contact.
 

30 millions in a far planet in Firefly universe would be like 30 people killed by a terrorist attack in a far African town, or dead for a (air)shipwreck in the news of the real life. And if it was the place of a secret experiment then then name would be hidden since the first moment. I guess a solar system in a "rich zone" could be fifteen billios of inhabitants.
 

Ryujin

Adventurer
No. It was forgotten. As I recall, when the crew of Serenity learned about it they went, in effect, "Miranda? What's that? Never heard of it." If it had been sold as a massive accident or catastrophe within their lifetimes, folks would remember it, because it took 30 million lives.
I vaguely recall someone (Kaylee?) mentioning something about remembering advertising for colonists for Miranda. Could be wrong.
 


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