Dispel Magic

[Lord Sessadore]

Basically that was my question - how big is the "zone"? Seems to me that an unlimited "zone" size is not quite right. Of course we may get better information when 4th Ed. is actually released.

I have a feeling that simply by virtue of being a spell/power a "zone" effect will have a limit on its size. Anything bigger or longer lasting than X or Y is a ritual, not a power. That way you don't have to worry about, say, dispel only being able to dispel part of a really really big zone.

 

[mach1.9pants]

As the Lord sessadore said, the power format is great. Easily digested and not heaps of exceptions and stuff. As long as they are written without any form of ambiguity... it will be hard for the writers to achieve that IMO.
And as has been happening in other threads we need cards for powers, creatures, conditions etc...My character sheet for 4E will be much smaller than previous and I will be using cards for everything. I, for one, would pay if WotC put out some really nice ones- I hope we'll get them free with DDI- but I also hope for a real cool template from some fans.
Anyway I will be using excel or whatever if there is nothing out there to tickle my fancy

 

[Shroomy]

Based on their comments about magic items, it looks like disjunction is definitely out of the new system.

 

[Kraydak]

If you remember back to some of the older 4e monster design threads, I brought up the point that, without "sourced" bonuses, you lose the tactical flexibility of being able to attack those bonuses. One of the examples I brought up was the case of fey warriors who get their combat stats through magic. And indeed, possibly in part because the monster design system doesn't track stat origins, Dispel Magic is a pale shadow of its original self, and an entire chapter of DnD combat tactics is lost.

Btw, that charm, save ends effect on your friend? Yup, Dispel Magic no worky. I'm not impressed with boasted about how short a spell description compared to earlier editions, when the new spell has precious little to do with the old one.

 

[Scipio202]

If you remember back to some of the older 4e monster design threads, I brought up the point that, without "sourced" bonuses, you lose the tactical flexibility of being able to attack those bonuses. One of the examples I brought up was the case of fey warriors who get their combat stats through magic. And indeed, possibly in part because the monster design system doesn't track stat origins, Dispel Magic is a pale shadow of its original self, and an entire chapter of DnD combat tactics is lost.

Btw, that charm, save ends effect on your friend? Yup, Dispel Magic no worky. I'm not impressed with boasted about how short a spell description compared to earlier editions, when the new spell has precious little to do with the old one.

But you don't have to organize the "counter" powers by (or only by) source. Since "charm" is a keyword just like "conjuration" and "zone", I wouldn't be surprised if there was a "dispel charm" power that said "end target charm effect". I think we'll see more, somewhat narrower dispel-type powers. So casters may need more powers to cancel various effects, this may be offset by the reusability of at-wills and the siloing of combat/non combats, and many effects being rituals instead of powers.

 

[WyzardWhately]

I'm not sure this is good enough. You use your action to MAYBE get rid of one of the enemy's effects, instead of trying to accomplish something on your own. It takes up one of your power slots to have this ability, and uses a daily to attempt it, and that's if you even get a chance to use it over the course of a day. That sounds like kind of a bad deal, to me, unless there's a lot of really spectacular zone/conjuration powers running around the game. Essentially, I think a tool this specialized and limited should be a bit more powerful.

Or, well, maybe the Wizard class gets a lot more dailies, to make up for their crap AC and hit points. Or something. I'm just not feeling this one.

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

Based on their comments about magic items, it looks like disjunction is definitely out of the new system.

There might be a power called disjunction, but I hope to heaven it isn't what it was in 3rd ed.

 

[hong]

If you remember back to some of the older 4e monster design threads, I brought up the point that, without "sourced" bonuses, you lose the tactical flexibility of being able to attack those bonuses. One of the examples I brought up was the case of fey warriors who get their combat stats through magic. And indeed, possibly in part because the monster design system doesn't track stat origins, Dispel Magic is a pale shadow of its original self, and an entire chapter of DnD combat tactics is lost.

Losing an entire chapter of tactics that applies to only 1-2 people out of 6 at the table is a feature, not a bug.

 

[Lord Sessadore]

I'm not sure this is good enough. You use your action to MAYBE get rid of one of the enemy's effects, instead of trying to accomplish something on your own. It takes up one of your power slots to have this ability, and uses a daily to attempt it, and that's if you even get a chance to use it over the course of a day. That sounds like kind of a bad deal, to me, unless there's a lot of really spectacular zone/conjuration powers running around the game. Essentially, I think a tool this specialized and limited should be a bit more powerful.

They have said that they're siloing combat and utility powers apart. So I think it's a bad assumption to think that you'll have to choose dispel magic over your big blasty dailies (ie that your daily slot(s) have to be shared between, say, sleep and prismatic beams and dispel magic). You'll just have to choose dispel magic over the other wizard utility spells.

 

[WyzardWhately]

They have said that they're siloing combat and utility powers apart. So I think it's a bad assumption to think that you'll have to choose dispel magic over your big blasty dailies (ie that your daily slot(s) have to be shared between, say, sleep and prismatic beams and dispel magic). You'll just have to choose dispel magic over the other wizard utility spells.

Even so, I'm a little unsure about the power of a chance of removing an enemy's effect v. putting up one of your own, which if it's a utility power might not even require a check.