Dispelling a Harpy's Song

[Nail]

Last session, the PCs ran into a Harpy. It was hidden by fog...but they could hear it's Captivating Song:

Captivating Song (Su): The most insidious ability of the harpy is its song. When a harpy sings, all creatures (other than harpies) within a 300-foot spread must succeed on a DC 16 Will save or become captivated. This is a sonic mind-affecting charm effect.

As you might expect, a few of the PCs succumbed, and walked toward the harpy, into the mist. The party wizard was not captivated; so, he tried to cast Dispel magic.

Here's the argument: The player says he's dispelling the song, so all PCs should be freed from its affect. I say he can dispel the effect on one of the PCs, but he can't target the song...after all, he can't see the harpy.

Who's right?

 

[Orichin]

As I see it, neither of you are right, the harpy's song is a supernatural ability, not a spell at all, and thus not applicable to being dispelled by dispel magic . A bard could counter the song, or silence would negate the song within its area as per the sonic descriptor, other than that, something like heal would be needed, I believe, to cure mind-affecting effects.

 

[Nail]

I'm sorry, Orichin, but that's incorrect. Supernatural abilities can be dispelled....although they can often be resumed as a free action (now "swift" action, I presume).


...although, now that I look at the SRD (Special abilities and conditions), it says both they cannot be dispelled (text) and they can be dispelled (table). Which is it?!!

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

As Orichin said.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Actually, Nail, they can't,

Check the Errata:

Table 8–1
Dungeon Master’s Guide, page 290
Problem: The table indicates that supernatural abilities can
be dispelled. This is not true in v.3.5.
Solution: In the Dispel row, Supernatural column, change
Yes to No.

 

[Nail]

Got it. As it happens, after posting I downloaded the newest errata (and some that's not so new!) and I'm including it within my e-copy of the SRD.

So, the problem I presented has been solved, albeit by removing the ability to Dispel, rather than clarifying which of us was "right". Ah well.

 

[DrSpunj]

So, the problem I presented has been solved, albeit by removing the ability to Dispel, rather than clarifying which of us was "right". Ah well.

Well, the problem you presented wasn't the real question, IMO.

As the player involved, I didn't know it was a harpy's song (and therefore a supernatural effect) until the session was over and Nail started spilling the (mechanical) beans about our foes. At the time I thought two of our party members had been affected by an area effect enchantment spell of some kind.

So, IMO, the question we were discussing is:

Can Dispel Magic be used to dispel a spell that targeted two (or more) targets? Or do you have to cast multiple Dispel Magic spells separately targeting each individual affected?

As an example spell, let's look at Slow. It affects "One creature/level, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart." So if two of our party members were affected with a Slow spell, can a single Dispel Magic be used to dispel the Slow effect from both targets? Assume the targets haven't moved at all between the casting of both spells (if that makes a difference somehow).

In looking over Dispel Magic I thought it could since it says:

Targeted Dispel: One object, creature, or spell is the target of the dispel magic spell. You make a dispel check (1d20 + your caster level, maximum +10) against the spell or against each ongoing spell currently in effect on the object or creature. The DC for this dispel check is 11 + the spell’s caster level. If you succeed on a particular check, that spell is dispelled; if you fail, that spell remains in effect.

The reason I didn't use an Area Dispel is because all of us (including the two PCs affected by the enchantment effect) had a lot of buffs going that I didn't want to mess with.

And on somewhat related side note, I'd be very grateful if someone could explain this phrase: "Haste dispels and counters Slow."

Obviously Haste could be cast to target multiple Slowed targets, but after "dispelling and countering" Slow, does the Haste remain in effect on those targets? Or is it used up getting rid of the Slow spell?

Thanks.

DrSpunj

 

[shilsen]

So, IMO, the question we were discussing is:

Can Dispel Magic be used to dispel a spell that targeted two (or more) targets? Or do you have to cast multiple Dispel Magic spells separately targeting each individual affected?

Multiple Dispel Magic spells, IMO.

And on somewhat related side note, I'd be very grateful if someone could explain this phrase: "Haste dispels and counters Slow."

Obviously Haste could be cast to target multiple Slowed targets, but after "dispelling and countering" Slow, does the Haste remain in effect on those targets? Or is it used up getting rid of the Slow spell?

It is used up.

 

[Nail]

Anyone else?

 

[dcollins]

Agree with shilsen.

- My reading is that once a spell has targeted a creature, you need a specific targeted dispel on that one creature. Otherwise you run into the issue (although DrSpun tried to avoid it) of what happens when the targeted creatures move far apart? Your options are thus (1) targeted dispel on one creature only, or (2) area dispel which goes after all effects and buffs. Pick one.

- "Countering" is very specific, both effects disappear. The FAQ has an entry specifying this.