Divine Challenge at the end of your turn

[AverageTable]

I agree with you that the text -- "or challenge a different target" -- is confusing and shouldn't be there.

I also agree that this text is confusing and should probably have been phrased better; but it is, unfortunately, necessary for the rules to say something to this effect.

Without the "or challenge a different target" clause, it becomes impossible for a paladin to cease challenging one target and challenge a different one instead. Without this clause the rule would effectively read "On your turn you must engage the target that is currently challenged. Period." This would mean that once a target has been challenged, the paladin can do nothing but engage that same target turn after turn until it is dead (or abandon the target and suffer the consequences of not engaging). He would be unable to switch targets without an automatic penalty.

But yes, the rule should probably have been worded more clearly.

 

[Skyscraper]

I bet it was a chaotic evil paladin that exterminated all the druids...

... after divine challenging them and running away, no less.

Thus appeared the first official 4E errata. Too late though, the druids were no more.

I'm glad we finally got to the bottom of this.

Sky

 

[Nonalla]

Alright I have a question that's bound to come up soon regarding paladins and marking.

Let's say a Paladin has Arcing Smite:
Encounter

Divine, Weapon
Action Melee weapon
Targets: One or two creatures
Attack: Strength vs. AC, one attack per target
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage, and the target is marked until the end of your next turn.

Let's say he hits 2 different targets, now they are both marked. Are they marked with Divine Challenge? Does this supercede the rule that you can only have one marked creature at a time or does the Paladin have to choose 1 creature to mark?

 

[chaotix42]

No, just because the paladin marked someone it does not mean they are subject to Divine Challenge. Only when the paladin uses DC itself is the target exposed to it - if he marks an enemy some other way they are marked and that's it.

 

[Skyscraper]

Since specific beats general, two creatures could be marked at the same time with this power, contrary to the general rule of a single mark.

I'm unsure about them being marked with Divine Challenge however. I'd assume that they are but would first check out the general entry on marking in the PHB if there is one. Otherwise, since the paladin does not mark in any other way, Divine Challenge would be applicable.

Sky

 

[Nonalla]

So the paladin in question could use Arcing Smite on 2 monsters, then mark an additional adjacent monster with DC to mark 3 targets in one turn? That's pretty elite tanking, right there.

 

[Lord Sessadore]

Where do you see the limitation that a character can only have one marked enemy at a time? As far as I know, the number of enemies you can have marked simultaneously is simply a limit imposed by whatever abilities you have that mark enemies.

A creature can only be marked by one other creature, but I haven't seen anything saying a creature can't have more than one mark active at once.

 

[Nareau]

Does this mean that if I move, attack kobold 1, and divine challenge kobold 2 (who's two squares away), the divine challenge has no effect except to keep me from using DC next turn?

I think that's the most sensible reading. I think there are two reasonable strict readings that hinge on the word "none":
"None" could refer to "No attacking the target, no standing next to the target, and no challenging a new target". This reading would mean challenging a different target is sufficient to guarantee you can use DC on your next turn. I think this is likely the intent of the wording, despite it being abusable.

Or "none" could refer to "No attacking the target and no standing next to the target". It would have been better to use the word "neither" to make it clear they were referring to the immediately preceding events. I think this would be a better interpretation. If you want to use your DC next turn, you MUST end your turn next to whomever (if anyone) is currently marked by it.

Nareau

 

[Cascade]

So, a few related questions...

Does the Piercing smite mark over write a DC mark?
Lets say your wisdom is +4 and only 3 targets are adjacent; one DC'd, one unmarked and another marked by a fighter. Does the Piercing smite overwrite all of the others, or just the unmarked? Can I choose not to have it overwrite either of the others?

 

[Staffan]

Where do you see the limitation that a character can only have one marked enemy at a time? As far as I know, the number of enemies you can have marked simultaneously is simply a limit imposed by whatever abilities you have that mark enemies.

Right. Both Divine Challenge and Combat Challenge make it difficult to mark multiple opponents (DC because it explicitly says that using it on a new opponent breaks previous uses of DC, and CC because it only lasts until the end of your next turn), but there's nothing about marks themselves that make it impossible.